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[Doomblade187]

People don't like Charter Schools being super prevalent because implementation is rife with embezzlement, for profit schools, and abuse (of students and teachers alike). Instead of spending money on vouchers, why not just improve the schools?

[Bumber]

In the UK you give the volunteer your name and address and they check the voter roll they have and very assiduously cross it off with a ruler and a pencil, though it’s been almost a decade since I was in the UK to vote, so mileage may vary now.

That’s all that’s really needed, to be perfectly honest. If an issue comes up with that then sure, an ID would’ve useful to deal with it, but as you mentioned previously, if it’s required it needs to be freely available and easily accessible in order for it to not become a barrier rather than a precaution.

The US states are bad about clearing their voter rolls of ineligible / dead voters. Any attempt to fix this is called "voter suppression".

Of course, of course, just $10 for an ID card.

And $25 for a bus pass to go to the DMV to apply for the card, I'm kidding of course, there is no bus route. Just a few thousand dollars for a car and the gasoline to run it. But why are you applying for a special ID if you have your drivers license? Well, whatever.

And a day off work to go do this, oh you can't come in? Just don't bother coming back, we'll get another temp.

How are you getting a job without ID? How are you getting there without transportation?

Surely everybody can get 1 day off of a week?

[Doomblade187]

Surely everybody can get 1 day off of a week?

No.

[Bumber]

People don't like Charter Schools being super prevalent because implementation is rife with embezzlement, for profit schools, and abuse (of students and teachers alike). Instead of spending money on vouchers, why not just improve the schools?

Why haven't the schools been improved yet? If the charter schools aren't performing properly, they can have their funding decreased or charter revoked. Can't really do that with public schools.

[hector13]

Can everybody afford a day off work?

Equally so, the voter rolls aren’t just purged of dead and ineligible voters, and it’s the eligible alive voters being purged that get people’s backs up.

[Vector]

@Bumber: If those are genuine questions, there's a podcast you should listen to by the New York Times called Nice White Parents.

[hector13]

Right-wing group in Wisconsin almost purged 17,000 eligible voters from voter roll, as one example.

This was a 7% miss rate of the 232,000 people that were flagged as having done the shocking crime of

*gasp*

moving house.

Bearing in mind those 17k never moved. 152k were removed from the purge list because they registered elsewhere, and 8k were deactivated, whatever that means. 71k remain on the purge list, presumably because they haven’t responded to having a postcard sent to the address they registered at (which does a fat lot of good if you moved house!), which does not mean they are ineligible to vote.

Please explain to me how removing someone from the voter roll because they moved house is an attempt to remove ineligible voters from the register, ‘cause I ain’t seeing it.

[Bumber]

Please explain to me how removing someone from the voter roll because they moved house is an attempt to remove ineligible voters from the register, ‘cause I ain’t seeing it.

I never made that argument.

There are incidents where non-citizens end up on the rolls. Felons in states where felons aren't currently allowed to vote. I also mentioned dead people, specifically.

It's not enough to simply check the voter rolls in a system so disorganized.

[delphonso]

I think we can all agree that the best thing to do is make sure no one can vote for...say...3 more elections and then the Republican president, senate, and house can clear up this whole mess by privatizing voting.

[hector13]

Conservatives aren’t doing that though. If they were making efforts to remove ineligible voters, and only ineligible voters, everything would be hunky dory. I’m cool with that.

They’re making efforts to remove eligible voters from the register as per the Wisconsin nonsense, they are making it more difficult to actually vote, as per the Georgia nonsense, and have actively tried to throw out thousands of votes, as per the battleground state lawsuit nonsense after the election.

This I would be using as a basis to show that they’re suppressing the vote, if they didn’t just come out and say it themselves.

Anything voting related led by a party that has admitted allowing people to vote would be bad for them is by definition not going to be good for voting.

[anewaname]

Right-wing group in Wisconsin almost purged 17,000 eligible voters from voter roll, as one example.

These vested interests are exactly why I trust little that is done at the state and county level, and why state voter ID systems should not be created without federal guidelines that allow others in the state to seek legal recourse at the federal level and within view of the other states.

[KittyTac]

I'm like the opposite of a conservative (eat the rich) but I don't agree, Hector. It's prominent in other countries for a reason. I'd rather not have the risk of fraud.

[None]

See, I'm not particularly worried about dead people voting, because, well, they're dead, and I don't foresee dead people being more or less likely to vote democrat or republican. Fraudsters would still need to have the deceased's name, address, date of birth, and SSN, and even still know that the recently deceased is registered to vote, and yes, these are all things that CAN be sleuthed out, but that's a whole lot of effort to go through when you can just get fewer people to vote for the other guy. Similarly, I have concerns about stripping voting and representation from incarcerated citizens when we have 24% of the world's prison population, Uighar concentration camps notwithstanding.

Please explain to me how removing someone from the voter roll because they moved house is an attempt to remove ineligible voters from the register, ‘cause I ain’t seeing it.

I never made that argument.

There are incidents where non-citizens end up on the rolls. Felons in states where felons aren't currently allowed to vote. I also mentioned dead people, specifically.

It's not enough to simply check the voter rolls in a system so disorganized.

Small numbers of votes

Becker says the number of noncitizens who end up on the rolls is relatively small and the number who actually vote is even smaller. Pennsylvania officials estimated that the noncitizens they identified cast 544 votes from 2000 through 2017, out of 93 million overall votes cast.

How many countless thousands would you keep from voting out of spite to stop these 544 votes?

[Duuvian]

Risk of fraud is an element of every election. The important things to look at are the scale of the fraud and who is doing ie whether it was a single person or an organized attempt at fraud. I only recall hearing of one organized attempt at voter fraud, and it was a pro-Trump lady what done it.

Remember, in the US system if you commit voter fraud you are handing the evidence needed to convict you over the the government which will attempt to do so once it's discovered.

Trump has even also been recorded soliciting 11,780 crimes of voter fraud on his own behalf to a state official.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/03/us/politics/trump-raffensperger-georgia-call-transcript.html

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state.

So after that, please tell me why I should take this obvious voter suppression as good faith when it's propagated by his supporters?

[Bumber]

This I would be using as a basis to show that they’re suppressing the vote, if they didn’t just come out and say it themselves.

Kind of odd to claim Trump is outright saying there that he wants to suppress the vote (by opposing the bill,) when everybody knows he'd been consistently shouting that there was going to be fraud in the election. Are you asking me to believe that he's telling his followers that the bill is completely legit, but he opposes it for electoral reasons? Does that sound like a Trump claim to you?

IIRC, Trump brought up potential fraud via ballot harvesting with regards to that bill.

See, I'm not particularly worried about dead people voting, because, well, they're dead, and I don't foresee dead people being more or less likely to vote democrat or republican. Fraudsters would still need to have the deceased's name, address, date of birth, and SSN, and even still know that the recently deceased is registered to vote

You're pre-supposing that all those are required to vote. You know somebody died. You find out where they lived. You request an absentee ballot. There's no requirement that the signature matches records.

How many countless thousands would you keep from voting out of spite to stop these 544 votes?

False dilemma.

Trump has even also been recorded soliciting 11,780 crimes of voter fraud on his own behalf to a state official.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/03/us/politics/trump-raffensperger-georgia-call-transcript.html

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state.

Nice try. He's talking about finding invalid votes to throw out:

But in Fulton, where they dumped ballots, you will find that you have many that aren’t even signed, and you have many that are forgeries.

OK, you know that. You know that. You have no doubt about that. And you will find, you will be at 11,779 within minutes, because Fulton County is totally corrupt, and so is she, totally corrupt.

I went through the whole transcript on this page back in January. I color coded everything relating to finding votes red.