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[scriver]

You know what would have done plenty to prevent this from happening? Not going "Both parties are the same, don't bother voting!".

We. Would. Not. Be. Here. If. Hillary. Won.

Probably true, but we certainly wouldn't be in this position if the Dems hadn't posted up their establishment choice over Sanders. Twice.

Both Hillary and Biden lost votes - a lot of them - for being "too far left". Sanders is significantly further left than either.

Trump would have obliterated Sanders in both elections.

If Trump hypotethically obliterating Sanders is a point against him then it sure isn't a point for Hillary, who we know for sure lost. Lost badly. Because she didn't even bother to campaign. Because she literally abandoned large parts of the country. She handed those states to Trump on a silver platter. For fucks sake, how can one possibly look back and blame this on Sanders when Clinton didn't even do the bare minimum to stop it

[Egan_BW]

Are we going back to 2016 now? Have you seen how much of the ban list is that year alone?

[MrRoboto75]

it sure isn't a point for Hillary, who we know for sure lost. Lost badly.

TIL winning the popular vote is a crushing defeat.

[McTraveller]

It is when getting the highest popular vote isn't the winning condition.

The electoral college (love it or hate it) means that you don't need just a majority, you need a more or less homogenous majority across the geography of the country.  That is, you need the majority in most places, not just "the majority."  Those two things are not always equivalent.

[Lord Shonus]

One of the biggest reasons Hillary lost is the dirtbag left's "Never Hillary" and "Stop Her" campaigns. She lost key states by razor-thin margins.

Bernie Bros don't want to admit this because they don't want to admit that this is their fault.

[hector13]

One of the biggest reasons Hillary lost is the dirtbag left's "Never Hillary" and "Stop Her" campaigns. She lost key states by razor-thin margins.

Bernie Bros don't want to admit this because they don't want to admit that this is their fault.

Or it could be that she was outcampaigned in those key battleground states (one of which she didn’t even bother to visit in the leadup to the election) and the FBI director said she was being investigated two weeks before the election.

Bernie was campaigning for her too, so it must have been his fault she did something to be investigated by the FBI, and couldn’t be bothered to campaign in states she needed to win.

[Frumple]

Would say, this thread needs 2016 relitigation right now like it needs a hole in the head.

... which is probably a poor choice of phrase considering the suicide uptick we're going to see shortly/are already seeing, but, y'know. Fucking tired of a lot of things right now, especially how fucking stuck I am on a lot of fronts to do anything about anything.

[Lord Shonus]

Not talking about what Bernie himself did. Talking about his followers. Who, in large numbers, pushed "Better Trump than Hillary" , "Stop Her", and "Shut up about the Supreme Court, we won't be scared into voting for you". Not to mention being one of the big sources spreading crap like "but her Emails" and the totally fraudulent "Clinton Death List". Most of the big online left-wing activists have purged their Twitter from that period, but it was very, very real.

[McTraveller]

Worrying about the past can't help anything, and playing what-if doesn't really work in non-deterministic situations.

Worry about how you can be a good neighbor, today and the day after, and the day after that...

[Dunamisdeos]

Worrying about the past can't help anything, and playing what-if doesn't really work in non-deterministic situations.

Worry about how you can be a good neighbor, today and the day after, and the day after that...

Best advice I've read all week.

[Vector]

can I also just remind people that 2016 was the one with The Russians

[hector13]

2016 was the one in which the Russians got caught, you mean.

I genuinely don’t know how DJ Jr. meeting with a Russian to get information about a political opponent, even though it turned out they didn’t actually have the information to give, is not some kind of election crime.

[Micro102]

Lots of people share blame for Trump winning. Hillary was a piece of shit. A lot of "leftists" couldn't tell the difference between fascism and indifference. The Green party specifically campaigned in swing states to maximize their damage to Clinton and minimize their own party's wellbeing after a meeting with Putin and Flynn. And then republicans, who want a theocracy filled with the suffering of minorities.

The important part to remember is to vote against the worst actor until they are gone, because that is the best choice we have to change things.

[hector13]

I mean… no? The parties are turning into extremes of one another. The best choice for a Republican is the worst choice for a Democrat, and vice versa.

Viable third options are what’s needed, but the type of person drawn to politics is inherently unstable, moreso if they think they can push back against the inertia of the current two party system from outside it.

[Micro102]

Turning into two extremes of another? If me and my brother got along, but then my brother turned into a Nazi, we have not "turned into extremes of another". He went fucking insane. Normal morality became incompatible with him, and became incompatible with normal morality.

If the democrats became the worst choice for republicans, then would be pushing every day for everyone who refused to say Biden was president, to be locked up for sedition. The democrats are too nice to republicans.