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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 3534755 times)

McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48945 on: June 30, 2022, 11:27:39 am »

Another interesting SCOTUS decision relating to EPA, and delegation of authority from Congress to executive agencies.

Sadly this "purely political" question of delegation and authority of agencies vs Congress will likely contribute to continued . . . complacency regarding the climate and infrastructure.
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Lidku

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48947 on: June 30, 2022, 11:47:37 am »

the supreme court of the united states is kill
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48948 on: June 30, 2022, 11:54:55 am »

I hate the impact of the decision, but I think it's the better decision - Congress needs to get its act together.  They are by far the weakest branch of the government at the moment, and they are the one that is supposed to represent the people!
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48949 on: June 30, 2022, 12:16:57 pm »

On paper I might agree, but with an obstructionist party actively preventing any such usage of responsibility, a supreme court hellbent on stripping away protections not explicitly granted by such obstructionist party is not only hopelessly irresponsible but likely irrecoverably damaging to our future, never mind that we have a supreme court actively ruling on party lines along the obstructionist party's will. There's an empty wake where these protections were, and there will continue to be an empty void there with absolutely no plan or process to restore them.

So much for clean coal, eh.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48950 on: June 30, 2022, 12:50:30 pm »

Looking into the actual decision, it was based on extremely technical grounds - this specific regulatory measure is in violation of the rules passed by Congress due to a certain amount of ambiguity and sloppiness. It isn't the complete dismantling of regulatory authority that was feared, and virtually all of the power to regulate is still there.
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Telgin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48951 on: June 30, 2022, 01:04:13 pm »

Too bad it'll be impossible to pass any kind of fixed legislation.

Or to pass any legislation to fix anything else the supreme court has been striking down.
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48952 on: June 30, 2022, 01:20:14 pm »

Too bad it'll be impossible to pass any kind of fixed legislation.

Or to pass any legislation to fix anything else the supreme court has been striking down.

Oh that's being too pessimistic - they will pass some legislation, it will likely just be worse than that which was struck down  ;D
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da_nang

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48953 on: June 30, 2022, 04:29:01 pm »

Looking into the actual decision, it was based on extremely technical grounds - this specific regulatory measure is in violation of the rules passed by Congress due to a certain amount of ambiguity and sloppiness. It isn't the complete dismantling of regulatory authority that was feared, and virtually all of the power to regulate is still there.
It basically comes down to what Congress meant with "best system of emissions reduction" under 42 U.S.C. §7411(a)(1) that the EPA uses to determine the standards of performance promulgated to the states under §7411(d). Does it mean any kind of system such as generation-shifting (switching to cleaner power plants), cap-and-trade, and dare I say the Simpsons method, or is it restricted to technological means, designs, work practice, etc.?

Not knowing the legislative history, I gave §7411 a layman's cursory glance. I will admit the textual context is an air of technology, so I initially assumed it was restricted to the latter. Yet Kagan points out that Congress in 1990 amended §7411(a)(1) by stripping out technological from the previous "best technological system of emissions reduction", presumably because Congress was worried technological means wouldn't be enough in the future, and I'll take her word for it.

Still, given the textual context, if Congress had intended EPA to have what amounts to legislative power, it would probably have been better use regulatory scheme or legislation instead of system (assuming constitutionality of such a delegation of power). And the Clean Power Plan very much was legislative in nature. It effectively told e.g. every coal power plant to shut down, bulldoze the plant, and build something greener, which is a far cry from e.g. installing a CO2 scrubber.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48954 on: June 30, 2022, 04:46:11 pm »

That sounds right, to my understanding. The decision is extremely narrow in a way that sets little precedent.
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nenjin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48955 on: June 30, 2022, 05:01:38 pm »

The message is clear though. Any sweeping changes this country needs has to go through Congress, and the SC is banking on a continuing conservative majority.
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48956 on: June 30, 2022, 06:16:01 pm »

That sounds right, to my understanding. The decision is extremely narrow in a way that sets little precedent.
The precedent the SCOTUS will do this exact same thing to every other regulatory body the conservative majority doesn't like that crosses their desk is pretty damn large, actually. Calling it narrow is myopic; the threat is doing the same damn thing to everything else they encounter going forward, and this court has given every indication that is exactly what they will do.

The message is clear though. Any sweeping changes this country needs has to go through Congress, and the SC is banking on a continuing conservative majority.
It's not even congress; SCOTUS has made it clear with this one that the only one that gets to decide what Congress means is them. Congress can go screw itself, SCOTUS decides what it means now.

The fucked up thing is that this or Roe somehow isn't even the worst decision they might make in the next bit. Next term they're going to decide if state legislatures can shit on their own state constitutions in regards to elections (i.e. what Trump was asking them to do in 2020) -- if they decide yes (damn likely, at this point), that pretty literally means there's just flat out no more US democracy left, because red state fuckers will be able to just do whatever the fuck to their elections without any restraint whatsoever. At that point it's either going to be Fuck the SCOTUS or Fuck the US, with no other options left.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 06:19:13 pm by Frumple »
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48957 on: June 30, 2022, 06:27:37 pm »

It's not even congress; SCOTUS has made it clear with this one that the only one that gets to decide what Congress means is them.

You'd better go find a medium and yell at Hamilton then:

Quote
in Federalist No. 78, Alexander Hamilton wrote: "A Constitution is, in fact, and must be regarded by the judges, as a fundamental law. It therefore belongs to them to ascertain its meaning, as well as the meaning of any particular act proceeding from the legislative body.
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nenjin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48958 on: June 30, 2022, 06:30:36 pm »

What do you do when the text clearly says "the sky is blue" and the court responds "seeing the sky as blue was set by an older, incorrect precedent. The sky is in fact actually red."

What do you do with intellectually dishonest justices? Respect the letter and spirit of the law like a fucking chump while they don't?

Meanwhile, Ketanji Brown Jackson got sworn in today.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 06:48:07 pm by nenjin »
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48959 on: June 30, 2022, 06:51:26 pm »

I wish I could help you all...
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