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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 2741608 times)

MorleyDev

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« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 04:44:26 pm by MorleyDev »
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48976 on: July 05, 2022, 12:49:26 pm »

News seems to think they caught the guy, but he's just a suspect for now. Officials are saying they believe this was "planned for weeks". He apparently "disguised himself in women's clothing", and Youtube has taken down his stuff. They also found ties on his social media to overseas white supremacy organizations.

That said, they are not currently treating it as a hate crime, as he seems to have opened fire indiscriminately. There was also a lesser shooting in Philadelphia, where some officers were wounded. They haven't caught anyone for that one yet.
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hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48977 on: July 05, 2022, 01:23:08 pm »

Gotta get the conservatives riled up he might be trans, gotta get the libs riled up Ďcause heís a white supremacist.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48978 on: July 05, 2022, 01:25:56 pm »

All those "the US military could(n't) crush any domestic insurgency" armchair generalisms seem to be getting more relevant as the US descends into a perennial state of low level civil warfare

MorleyDev

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48979 on: July 05, 2022, 01:50:39 pm »

(Also the "all it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun", yeah not so easy when they ambush a crowd of civilians from an elevated position.)

According to BBC News the are he attacked has a high Jewish population, so if it's white supremacy related that may be a factor.

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nenjin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48980 on: July 05, 2022, 03:26:51 pm »

All those "the US military could(n't) crush any domestic insurgency" armchair generalisms seem to be getting more relevant as the US descends into a perennial state of low level civil warfare

If the US military were to treat a domestic insurgency the way they treat everyone else, they'd still crush them. Hard to attack from a rooftop when the whole building has been leveled by a drone strike.
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TamerVirus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48981 on: July 05, 2022, 03:34:59 pm »

But whose to say that the military won't immediately fracture; with half joining in on this hypothetical 'domestic insurgency'

Hell, I'd imagine any sort of large scale domestic insurgency in America to descend into a chaotic quagmire as a bunch of covert / overt international players dogpile in on the mess to push whatever agenda they might have
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48982 on: July 05, 2022, 07:09:04 pm »

Where were the attacker's friends? Family?

This is something that was in the works far longer than whatever time the guy took to make his specific tactical plans.

No amount of legislation can fix that problem.
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delphonso

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48983 on: July 05, 2022, 07:22:16 pm »

Where were the attacker's friends? Family?

This is something that was in the works far longer than whatever time the guy took to make his specific tactical plans.

No amount of legislation can fix that problem.

Working three jobs to pay rent, presumably.

hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48984 on: July 05, 2022, 07:24:35 pm »

Where were the attacker's friends? Family?

This is something that was in the works far longer than whatever time the guy took to make his specific tactical plans.

No amount of legislation can fix that problem.

Do you think any of your friends or family are capable of carrying out an attack like this?
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48985 on: July 05, 2022, 08:49:53 pm »

Do you think any of your friends or family are capable of carrying out an attack like this?

Capable? From a technical sense, yes. Would they want to? The odds are very remote.
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Folly

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48986 on: July 05, 2022, 09:41:05 pm »

Where were the attacker's friends? Family?
This is something that was in the works far longer than whatever time the guy took to make his specific tactical plans.
No amount of legislation can fix that problem.

Friends and family reported him to the police, after he explicitly talked about killing himself and everyone else. Police went to his house, confiscated all his knives and swords, then turned him loose because that was all they could legally do. Without his knives, he was forced to go out and legally purchase an assault rifle for his killing spree.

Some sensible legislation making it illegal to sell guns to someone who has been recently reported for threatening both suicide and mass murder would probably have made a big difference here.
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nenjin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48987 on: July 05, 2022, 10:40:26 pm »

That would require a Federal Gun Registry that was adhered to, both by states enforcing it and gun vendors everywhere abiding by it. And it would require some agency to oversee it. I feel like we had one of those, something about booze smokes and guns? Where's Redking where you need him. He'd talk a lot about how the ATF has been systematically neutered over the last two decades, along with some high profile scandals, to the point it barely even exists beyond the first two letters.

There's so many barriers, political, logistical, legal, emotional.....to make such a thing in America happen it's something the entire country and the majority of politicians have to want. And we don't come anywhere near those numbers. The entire country needs to get on board with actual gun control so at least shit like what this friggin guy is giving away for free isn't considered street legal. That background checks and waiting periods, at a minimum, are federal law for all gun sales.

And even then...who would have entered what info into what database in what time frame that some random vendor would actually check against? It's a pretty big chain of compliance to get to an updated registry that might prevent an unhinged person from buying a gun on a nationwide scale. Especially with the South where you can probably still get just about anything with cash in hand and very few questions asked. And even then, what is the actual legal basis for denying them a purchase? It's not like they're a felon (who can't legally own firearms most places.) Do they need a psychiatrist's note on file that they're suicidal? What if the cops haven't been involved and there's nothing to document? Just a lot of bad social media shit and lifestyle stuff that's never risen to the level of police attention?

It's not cut and dry and it's not simple, even though I wish it was. And even WITH all those measures and fail safes....some crazy fuck in this country is still going to go out in the worst way possible. That's where we at as a country now, a lot of little ticking time bombs. America now looks more like what people feared it would look like after 9/11. Terror around every corner, a psycho wanting to do bad shit in every city, waiting for a target rich environment that will make a big scene. The difference is, they're not the Jihadi sleeper cells we made 2 decades of television out of. They're homegrown crazy lone wolves with ready access to enough firepower to scare the fuck out of the whole country, and the barely concealed support of our equally pyschotic Republican party. Seriously, that prick in the Twitter link above didn't even wait a couple hours before he basically told people on Facebook to move on and enjoy their 4th of July. When that's the attitude of basically our entire governing body (because all Democrats really do is ask for more money to get more Democrats elected so they can maybe one day do something this country needs without Republican support) to unhinged "individualist" white guys blasting up schools and parades for literally no reason, no wonder we're this fucked as a country. Say what you will about other gun crime, at least there's motivating factors there regular people can understand. Money, revenge, personal beef. The rest, the stuff that makes the headlines, is pure sadistic evil.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2022, 10:52:15 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

lemon10

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48988 on: July 06, 2022, 01:33:13 am »

No, the problem is simple and the solution is straightforward: To reduce mass shooting events and casualties you 1) Need to make it harder for anyone to get a gun, 2) Make it much much harder for people that are especially likely to cause an event to get a gun and 3) Restrict the types of weaponry anyone can buy.

How you do this can be complicated if you aren't willing to go all the way and ban them, but even then as long as you are actually meaningfully restricting 1, 2 and 3 things become a lot better even if you aren't getting 100% of the mass shooters.

Its also much impossible to actually implement any truly meaningful reform as long as Republicans maintain power and made much more difficult by the second amendment, but that's an entirely different thing from it being complicated.
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Sure, systems restricting gun ownership would likely be complex, but all the issues you are raising have been solved in other countries that aren't actually willing to ban guns like Canada.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2022, 04:54:44 am by lemon10 »
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48989 on: July 06, 2022, 06:32:18 am »

So access to guns was the last failure in a long chain of failures. Saying his friends/family were there "to notify the police" after he had already had a long history of collecting weapons and exhibiting mental health symptoms still supports my point: where were the friends and family and community support networks when all that stuff started?

Put another way: If you need gun bans / controls to keep you safe, you've already lost in some philosophical sense.  I also maintain it's hypocritical: there are many more things that kill and injure far more people per <pick your time period> than gun violence, yet "we" justify those things away simply because they are less sensational and because they are things "we" don't want to have taken away.

That said: I agree there's a strong case to limit access to semi- and fully-automatic weapons to discourage the vast majority of these sensational events.
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