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[bloop_bleep]

I think a big part of the reason we're in this position is that if this happened in the USA, the crowd would be shot down.  Our only voice is through elections, which are fucked.  Next is protest, which is limited and media controlled to the point of usually mostly meaningless.  After that is suicide by cop.  When our only input is through elections, we can't unfuck our elections.

This is why police brutality and surveillance are my top issues.

... For fuck's sake man, you're not living in Saudi Arabia. Or Zimbabwe. Or any of the literally dozens of other countries without democracy of almost any form. Yes, I understand that we have a lot of problems that desperately need fixing. But honestly I'm sick of people saying that America is "completely fucked," or a "third-world country," or any of the other phrases that people like to throw around a lot. Saying that it is is insulting to places which actually are completely fucked or third-world countries. You have access to modern medicine, have at least some kind of education system, and generally don't expect to shot down by an extremist militant group tomorrow. Count your blessings once in a while.

People are not complaining because of that. That is a inaccurate thing to say and an ineffectual one. People are angry because we know it can be better and we expect better. We will not passively bow down because someone somewhere has it worse so oh well I guess everything is fine forever. No, we want and demand better and will hold or government to proper standards.

I'm not saying we should not try to enact change. I'm saying people should stop complaining about how America apparently has no democracy and how it is all absolutely fucked. America has more democracy than the majority of countries in the world, and we need to act like it.

[Zangi]

How would voter ID work for corporations? You guys just aren’t thinking this through.

Voter ID is generally just official document like a driver's license.

Already have EIN# and certificate of incorporation on record.  Officers can 'enact the will of the corporation', CEO or President for example.  As for something official-ish, they'd probably have to issue something similar to a car title... what with the possibility of company officers being changed. 

There are some states that do require photo id.  But I reckon some bending could be made on that count.

[hector13]

Well, in some of those countries America has co-opted the “democratic process” for their own ends...

What was wrong about what SalmonGod said though?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The quality of democracy is eternally capped by the quality of the public. If you wish to see democracy save us from ourselves, you will be vastly disappointed.

[SalmonGod]

I think a big part of the reason we're in this position is that if this happened in the USA, the crowd would be shot down.  Our only voice is through elections, which are fucked.  Next is protest, which is limited and media controlled to the point of usually mostly meaningless.  After that is suicide by cop.  When our only input is through elections, we can't unfuck our elections.

This is why police brutality and surveillance are my top issues.

... For fuck's sake man, you're not living in Saudi Arabia. Or Zimbabwe. Or any of the literally dozens of other countries without democracy of almost any form. Yes, I understand that we have a lot of problems that desperately need fixing. But honestly I'm sick of people saying that America is "completely fucked," or a "third-world country," or any of the other phrases that people like to throw around a lot. Saying that it is is insulting to places which actually are completely fucked or third-world countries. You have access to modern medicine, have at least some kind of education system, and generally don't expect to shot down by an extremist militant group tomorrow. Count your blessings once in a while.

The USA has the exact problems that you're talking about.  They're just not problems suffered by everyone uniformly, and the privileged go to extreme efforts to frame them as distant and non-systemic, even when they're right next door.  Many people don't have access to modern medicine.  Some kind of education system isn't saying much.  Police kill on average 3 people a day, and many legitimately fear for their lives in every encounter with them.  They also engage in legalized literal highway robbery of innocent people.

Yeah, we're not the worst in the world on every point.  There are places that have more corrupt governments.  More poverty.  More violence.  Etc.  But among developed, wealthy nations we're sub-par on just about every front.  And I'm just stating my opinion as to why.  Over the last several decades, we've allowed ourselves to be coerced into a culture of isolation that constantly gives up its power to collectively bargain against wealth and enforce accountability to authority.

[Frumple]

Mind, there's probably gods know how many other factors involved. Pretty much always regarding stuff of the scale being discussed if you've come to the conclusion there was a single why you've cocked up somewhere and probably massively, heh.

... though I guess on the bright side, we've mostly bargained out assassination and murder from most of our political discourse, which is... something, maybe. Can't say I exactly miss some of the shit that went down while clawing worker protections from ye' olde riche fucks back in the union days and whatnot, ferex. Not that what's still happening to political dissidents in the edge cases is exactly appealing, but at least it's not occasionally stuff you could fairly accurately call a small scale civil war.

[bloop_bleep]

Perhaps you'd like to go to Yemen, where normal civilians are being bombed on a daily basis, and tell them how bad you have it here? Or perhaps to a Rohingya village in Myanmar, and explain to them how their systematic rape and murder are the "exact same problems" the USA has?

Tell me something. Do you expect to die of malaria tomorrow? Or have your entire family killed in a bombing? Do you live in a small shack with barely enough food to survive, and work 15 hours a day in the fields without even a pair of shoes?

You take too much for granted. Yes, compared to rich world countries (which only a small fraction of the world live in), the USA could be considered sub-par. But don't for a moment think that you're getting the short end of the stick.

[redwallzyl]

Perhaps you'd like to go to Yemen, where normal civilians are being bombed on a daily basis, and tell them how bad you have it here? Or perhaps to a Rohingya village in Myanmar, and explain to them how their systematic rape and murder are the "exact same problems" the USA has?

Tell me something. Do you expect to die of malaria tomorrow? Or have your entire family killed in a bombing? Do you live in a small shack with barely enough food to survive, and work 15 hours a day in the fields without even a pair of shoes?

You take too much for granted. Yes, compared to rich world countries (which only a small fraction of the world live in), the USA could be considered sub-par. But don't for a moment think that you're getting the short end of the stick.

It seems to me you are purposely misinterpreting what is being said and the intention of the poster with the classic "all I'm saying" thing that people do when trying to make a point no one is disputing.

[sluissa]

Seriously, fuck antifa.

... yes, fuck the broad and largely unconnected mass of groups necessarily related by being willing and able to contribute to violence, property damage and anarchy.

Let us also say to fornication with people that wear a toupee. Best plan, I swear.

FTFY

[Reelya]

<snip - wrong thread. damn you, tabs>

[EnigmaticHat]

Americans have the most voice in government of any country in the world.

After all spending money is a form of speech.  The supreme court said so.

Hey. If spending money is free speech, does that mean that it's unconstitutional to deny people universal income?

Hehe, well, *spending* money is protected speech.  *Having* money is a privilege.

[Egan_BW]

In order to spend money, you must have money. It's the equivalent of surgically removing poor people's vocal cords and then claiming they still have free speech because they can still write.

[wierd]

Dont be silly. You can spend other people's money.

In a way, that is exactly what banks do when they make loans; it is also what ordinary people do, when they TAKE a loan; and It is also what politicians do when they agree on a budget.  Naturally, they will not see that for normal people who are not entrusted to manage a huge pile of money that is not theirs, that the only way to use money for speech is to have it to spend.

[Hanslanda]

Perhaps you'd like to go to Yemen, where normal civilians are being bombed on a daily basis, and tell them how bad you have it here? Or perhaps to a Rohingya village in Myanmar, and explain to them how their systematic rape and murder are the "exact same problems" the USA has?

Tell me something. Do you expect to die of malaria tomorrow? Or have your entire family killed in a bombing? Do you live in a small shack with barely enough food to survive, and work 15 hours a day in the fields without even a pair of shoes?

You take too much for granted. Yes, compared to rich world countries (which only a small fraction of the world live in), the USA could be considered sub-par. But don't for a moment think that you're getting the short end of the stick.

Huh. I've had a broken bone for something like seven or eight years now because of how oppressively expensive not having insurance is. I work ten and twelve hour days to ever so slightly make it by. I managed to buy a cheap gun because I've had about eight encounters with psycho methheads, deranged opioid addicts, drunk drivers, and, worst of all, rich assholes who feel entitled to kick the ass of anyone who drives wrong, is non Christian, not a Republican, or just plain in the wrong place, and who has the money to afford weaseling out of any punishment they'd incur doing so.

So yeah, I'm not getting raped murdered or bombed so far but it seriously is irking to be told 'you don't appreciate how good things are for you'. I sure as shit am thankful for the good things in my life, but burying your head in the sand and ignoring the bad things in life is idiotic. Sane measured discourse directed towards problem solving is the only reason we aren't at the bottom of the food chain and the only reason anyone has anything good in their life. That and thumbs.

[Maximum Spin]

Yes, compared to rich world countries (which only a small fraction of the world live in), the USA could be considered sub-par.

Actually, the US economically outperforms among them too. Systematically, the US is still the best country to live in.