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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 3533351 times)

Doomblade187

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21630 on: July 11, 2018, 08:21:46 am »

But taxing them sounds... Socialist. We can't have that commie shit, except for in the parts of the Bible we quietly flip past real quick.
*Lights Bible on fire* Burn the commies! /s

But yeah, we really need to figure out how to fix our education system.
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da_nang

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21631 on: July 11, 2018, 09:05:35 am »

The question is, should people be able to support a good quality of life without an expensive, time-consuming, and possibly-bankrupting degree?
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21632 on: July 11, 2018, 09:17:09 am »

I mean, I'd say someone should be able to live a decent life without having an economically desirable skillset, sure. Or that helping people get one they can enjoy is a good thing, for that matter.

Unfortunately, fuck welfare and fuck education (and fuck socialism, which is the direction you're going when you subsidize industries so they can employ that sort of person without getting run into the ground) are all right-wing red meat :V
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scriver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21633 on: July 11, 2018, 10:12:34 am »

Personally, I think the biggest problem with Trump's trade war (for america, that is, because as a Swede I obviously think that the absolute worst thing about it is the broad strokes instead of China-targeted) is that he doesn't, or perhaps the discussion doesn't, seem to understand just how broad fronts China is waging it on (and have been, for years). Tariffs to counter Chinese price dumping, sure, whatever, but they're also buying up harbours all over the world and putting countries in their direct influence, economically and societally, in both Africa and the rest of Asia - not to mention that trade lane grabbing they're attempting in the Pacific scene (that thing with the man-made islands near the Philippines).
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Trekkin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21634 on: July 11, 2018, 10:12:49 am »

The question is, should people be able to support a good quality of life without an expensive, time-consuming, and possibly-bankrupting degree?

That is not a question education can answer; although it is a favorite scapegoat of the left and right alike, particularly as regards STEM education, the fact of the matter is that we cannot educate pupils into jobs that do not exist and there are vastly more pupils than there are "good" jobs. We may expect automation to increase this gap faster than declining birth rates decrease it, although this may end up being a self-solving problem.

We are, at present, trapped in a cycle where every level of education is oversaturated with pupils whose parents saw it as a path to a well-paying job, at which point the resultant surfeit of qualified workers drives wages down and creates a surplus of redundant, unemployed graduates who look enviously at people who reached the next rung and decide that their children must attain a still higher degree. Meanwhile, of course, the high-performing pupils are accomplishing themselves beyond the remit of sanity and everyone else is bored silly and increasingly hopeless, which makes teaching absolutely hellish.

So perhaps the question should be "what are we to do with huge numbers of people for which there is no readily apparent need"?
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Kagus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21635 on: July 11, 2018, 10:26:30 am »

I have some views regarding education in general and what kind of role I feel it should take in society, but it's all rather utopian drivel and I honestly don't have much say in the matter as, y'know, I've really never had an education of any sort. I'm about as far outside the system as you can get.

Looking at it from the outside in though, shit seems to be of the fucked variety.

sluissa

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21636 on: July 11, 2018, 10:54:29 am »

I think the "expensive and possibly bankrupting" part is where we need to focus. We already more or less force people to deal with 12 years of normal schooling. Another 2-4 years is really not that time consuming in the long run if they didn't put themselves in debt in the process.

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Doomblade187

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21637 on: July 11, 2018, 10:57:12 am »

Looking at it from the outside in though, shit seems to be of the fucked variety.
That seems to be the general consensus.

Relevant:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/564545/

@sluisaa, yeah, greater state investment in s skilled workforce seems to be a good way about it. I personally like your idea after skimming it.
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Teneb

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21638 on: July 11, 2018, 11:21:27 am »

I think the "expensive and possibly bankrupting" part is where we need to focus. We already more or less force people to deal with 12 years of normal schooling. Another 2-4 years is really not that time consuming in the long run if they didn't put themselves in debt in the process.
It seems that way at first, but, in hindsight, it isn't really that time consuming. And I can personally attest that it does feel much, much better when you're not dooming yourself to life-long debt (and beyond, I think? I forget if the US has debt inheritance or not, because it's not a thing here).

Given I am study History and not one of high and mighty STEM fields (and boy do I have grievances with the people that study/work those fields, but I won't derail with that unless people want me to), I am not really in a position to fear being unemployed: it's exceptionally hard, at least here, to not find work as a teacher unless you are being incredibly picky. Also helps that the university forces anyone going for a licence in addition to a bachelor's to spend two years being a teacher's assistant as part of the curriculum. The reason I mention it is that this could be extended to other areas without being intrinsically locked to those who seek to teach.
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Doomblade187

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21639 on: July 11, 2018, 11:28:03 am »

Meanwhile, USCIS is trying to get rid of H-1Bs and foreign students, sounds like: Forbes Link

Hm, regarding that required TA time, my University has a lot of work-study type things with various companies, and the model is certainly a helpful one. (Filthy STEM major here) The model definitely should be more widespread, and helps defray the costs of college a little bit.
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Trekkin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21640 on: July 11, 2018, 11:30:29 am »

Meanwhile, USCIS is trying to get rid of H-1Bs and foreign students, sounds like: Forbes Link

Hm, regarding that required TA time, my University has a lot of work-study type things with various companies, and the model is certainly a helpful one. (Filthy STEM major here) The model definitely should be more widespread, and helps defray the costs of college a little bit.

Or we could go the STEM grad school route and make it free provided you work as an RA/TA, albeit at the cost of significantly shrinking the applicant pool.
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Baffler

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21641 on: July 11, 2018, 01:22:28 pm »

(and beyond, I think? I forget if the US has debt inheritance or not, because it's not a thing here).

The answer basically amounts to sometimes.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21642 on: July 11, 2018, 01:30:01 pm »

You don't inherit debt but collectors are totally allowed to pretend you do and can get away with making you pay them.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21643 on: July 11, 2018, 02:02:08 pm »

I'm not sure why Mathematics gets lumped in with STEM. Sure you need to do math to be an engineer, but a mathematician is not meaningfully more "useful to society" (according to those who say liberal arts is a waste of time) then a literature major is.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21644 on: July 11, 2018, 02:06:30 pm »

I always thought of mathematics as a base for further learning.

People who brag about the knowledge of mathematics and never use it to further develop other skills/knowledge are basically stagnant, but with fractions.
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