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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 680959 times)

Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24300 on: September 14, 2018, 02:49:22 pm »

I have multiple friends in the military, and more than half of them are not on board with Trump. I expect his approval rating is mirrored in the military.
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Ispil

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24301 on: September 14, 2018, 02:53:58 pm »

Hey man, he’s got a pretty constant ~40% approval rate. That’s a pretty significant chunk of people who think the swamp is trying to overrun the Trumpster.

It’s been declining since the convictions, and Mueller’s approval increasing.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24302 on: September 14, 2018, 03:12:55 pm »

I have multiple friends in the military, and more than half of them are not on board with Trump. I expect his approval rating is mirrored in the military.
From the last I remember seeing much on it, his approval is decent among the army, fairly high among marines (almost certainly an artifact of mattis, with a non-zero chance of hard flip should something happen to him), and low-ish among air force and navy. Country wide approval isn't mirrored, per se, but it's not all that high, either.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24303 on: September 14, 2018, 03:59:49 pm »

I have multiple friends in the military, and more than half of them are not on board with Trump. I expect his approval rating is mirrored in the military.
From the last I remember seeing much on it, his approval is decent among the army, fairly high among marines (almost certainly an artifact of mattis, with a non-zero chance of hard flip should something happen to him), and low-ish among air force and navy. Country wide approval isn't mirrored, per se, but it's not all that high, either.
How much of that is loyalty to the President Trump versus loyalty to Trump the person? Sorta like how the Varangian Guard were loyal to whoever was Emperor, not to any Emperor in particular

Greiger

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24304 on: September 14, 2018, 04:08:52 pm »

How much of that is loyalty to the President Trump versus loyalty to Trump the person? Sorta like how the Varangian Guard were loyal to whoever was Emperor, not to any Emperor in particular
That actually seems like a really good thought.  He is pretty much the entire armed forces' boss so it makes me wonder how many members of the armed forces may have answered "Oh yes sir, I love the man and he is a boon to the country" simply because their CO was issuing the survey?

Naturally I've never been in the military, so I'm not sure how this stuff works, but wouldn't being openly against the man qualify as insubordination?
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24305 on: September 14, 2018, 04:19:47 pm »

How much of that is loyalty to the President Trump versus loyalty to Trump the person? Sorta like how the Varangian Guard were loyal to whoever was Emperor, not to any Emperor in particular
That actually seems like a really good thought.  He is pretty much the entire armed forces' boss so it makes me wonder how many members of the armed forces may have answered "Oh yes sir, I love the man and he is a boon to the country" simply because their CO was issuing the survey?

Naturally I've never been in the military, so I'm not sure how this stuff works, but wouldn't being openly against the man qualify as insubordination?
That the President can slash defence spending probably also helps persuade those working in defence not to be critical without good cause. But I mean more in the sense of army units (and especially elite units) having a tendency to immensely respect their heads of state regardless of who they are, as long as they are head of state, because their commissioned authority fundamentally derives from the head of state and they are formally trained to respect authority / the sovereign authority. So would the polls showing massive approval for Trump amongst armed forces indicate that they support the President, or specifically Trump the person - in other words, if a 5D US risk II electric boogaloo happened because Trump was impeached for example, would the US armed forces side with Trump, or with whomever was the subsequent President? If its the former, they're loyal to Trump - if it's the latter, they're loyal to the President. Making Mattis defence secretary likely helps too

Kagus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24306 on: September 14, 2018, 04:23:49 pm »

It's not insubordination if there's not an order that is being disobeyed. You're allowed, hell, expected to dislike your superiors, but you're also expected to follow orders whether you like them or not.

That's internal politics. However, the military is also extremely careful with public image, and part of that means displaying unity (partly why such a stink is made around people in uniform loudly voicing political opinions: It's breaking the "uniformity"). So even if you don't like the president, you are required to support him. There is definitely a lot of loyalty to the system going on, whether it's actually felt or just adopted because everyone else is doing it (also rather prevalent).


On top of that, a very hefty number of soldiers are recruited from low-income, low-education rural families who overlap considerably with the kind of people who hopped aboard the Trump train. So, essentially, there are multiple factors at play.

UrbanGiraffe

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24307 on: September 14, 2018, 04:33:06 pm »

Historically, the soldiers themselves rarely mutiny unless one of two things happen:

1) Their pay goes into severe arrears / the state goes bankrupt, or living conditions for the specific soldiers in a location go beyond physical limits of what's tolerable
2) There are existing ethnic or religious divisions with active political conflict ongoing outside the military

Mutinies used to be extremely common in armies, the norm even, but modern states will usually spare no expense (or hold back on political purges) to prevent mutinies. How far up the officer hierarchy a mutiny goes and to what extent it is aligned with other political events could be used to distinguish them from other things like open rebellion or revolution, but these are essentially "bottom up" events.

If the unrest starts at the top with senior officers, it's a coup, not a rebellion. Whether a coup works or not depends on many things, but mostly it's the timing and the degree to which the senior officers are on board that matters. The body of the army in a successful coup won't have time to hear what's going on, let alone decide what they want to do, while ideally there also wouldn't be any loyal senior officers in a position to impede it long enough for word to get out.

Edit: Anyway, the gist is that if the US military were to oust Trump, it would almost definitely be a coup carried out by the senior officers and not have any connection to the "loyalty" of the army itself.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 04:40:33 pm by UrbanGiraffe »
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Karnewarrior

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24308 on: September 14, 2018, 07:02:58 pm »

How much of that is loyalty to the President Trump versus loyalty to Trump the person? Sorta like how the Varangian Guard were loyal to whoever was Emperor, not to any Emperor in particular
That actually seems like a really good thought.  He is pretty much the entire armed forces' boss so it makes me wonder how many members of the armed forces may have answered "Oh yes sir, I love the man and he is a boon to the country" simply because their CO was issuing the survey?

Naturally I've never been in the military, so I'm not sure how this stuff works, but wouldn't being openly against the man qualify as insubordination?
No, but the military is quite careful about not letting uniformed servicemen/women express political opinions to the public, at least while in uniform. Mostly to avoid making it seem like the military is politically biased, because that would be bad.

It IS biased, mostly to rural, gun-toting strongmen types IME, that tends to bend Republican in the current political climate, but there's soldiers and airmen and seamen from all over, so there's not insignificant subgroups of all sorts of types, including everyone from your usual democrat to SJWs to commies to outright fascists. The only group not represented is, obviously, pacifists, but they still sometimes show up on the fringes as doctors and paperpushers and the like, generally as contractors.

So it's as one might expect from the military: there's a natural selection for people who like big boomies and love AR15s, and for people of low incomes at home, but there's plenty of exceptions to one or both. One of the few good things I can say about the military is that they're pretty tolerant of your private life being private as long as it doesn't fuck with their image, and now as long as you're not one'a dem durn trannies, because you know my foremost concern in a foxhole is to not have a guy looking at my ass, not to not be shot by the vietcong. That comes second!  ::)

One of the guys in my squadron put it pretty eloquently: "If my ass is what encourages [gay squad member] to fight harder, I'll take my damn pants off."
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Hanslanda

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24309 on: September 14, 2018, 07:35:12 pm »

Blah blah Sacred Band of Carthage blah
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Il Palazzo

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24310 on: September 14, 2018, 07:42:24 pm »

Thebes, you mean?
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Hanslanda

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24311 on: September 15, 2018, 05:23:42 am »

I was thinking of them yeah. I knew they were Greek, but Drunk-Me insisted it was Carthage.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24312 on: September 15, 2018, 08:12:37 pm »

So apparently as a hurricane humps up to the coast, massachusetts is exploding? Dozens of explosions, things catching fire. Sounds sorta' like a monumentally colossal fuck up on the part of some gas company or another, from what I've noticed.

I'm seeing buzz about Julia Salazar winning her primary.

I'm not fully convinced these two things are related.

God's punishment, obviously :P

Let me know when the swarms of locusts show up. :P
Let's see, war, famine, death... and grasshoppers. Seems like one-a' them things ain't quite like th' others.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24313 on: September 15, 2018, 08:25:40 pm »

Auditions for that fourth horseman position must have been interesting.

“Well, Pest, you’re not quite what we’re looking for. I mean, Famine kind of already does what your thing can do, perhaps you have some extra talents you can offer?”

“Oh, I can do virulent disease too. It’s just a party trick really...”

“... you’re in.”

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24314 on: September 15, 2018, 08:28:25 pm »

Dunno why it gets used instead of Conquest.
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