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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 3532723 times)

sluissa

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #29955 on: April 26, 2019, 04:40:17 pm »

This is my take as well. I've never understood the desire for large families. When your entire family were also employees, that rationale made more sense. Now it just seems like people want large families because "that's how I grew up."

Biological imperative to reproduce. Some are better at recognizing it and handling it than others.
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SalmonGod

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #29956 on: April 26, 2019, 04:43:25 pm »

Quote
I'm of the opinion that it's irresponsible in today's world to have more than 2 kids, due to population pressures on environment and sociology.  But I apply that to everyone.  No qualifiers.

This is my take as well. I've never understood the desire for large families. When your entire family were also employees, that rationale made more sense. Now it just seems like people want large families because "that's how I grew up."

It's **Meaning of Life** territory. 

Please know that even though I have kids, I do not personally share the belief that raising kids is my existential purpose.

But for many, family is their purpose in life.  This doesn't need to have a religious basis, and it can be more sophisticated than "BABIES!!!!"

Who has the right to tell them that they're wrong?  Why does anyone get to decide someone else's existential philosophy?  Unless you consider yourself the first human being in all history to discover an absolute objective basis on which to draw up a meaning of life, you don't.  Until such a thing is discovered, we all have to decide for ourselves what our source of purpose, meaning, and fulfillment is.  Some will decide that it's raising other people, watching them grow up to lead their own fulfilling lives, and satisfaction in having been the origin of that life.  And that's ok.

Now combine this with the machinations of wealth inequality. 

On an individual basis, it's easy to say that someone shouldn't have had kids they couldn't support.  That they behaved irresponsibly.  And it can be hard to disagree. 

But in the bigger picture... compare a poor person who works hard their whole lives from a position of little opportunity to someone who was born into wealth, and both hold raising a family as core existential ideals.  The poor person may never find themselves in a place where it would be objectively "responsible" for them to have a child.  But it's beyond me or anyone else to tell them they shouldn't do it anyway if the alternative is to live a life devoid of meaning.  You may as well tell them they should go ahead and kill themselves. 

This goes deeper than any junk about material luxury-based quality of life standard or whatever.  Blanket condemnation of the practice of "having kids you can't support" contains implicit approval of the idea that one of those people deserves a life that is spiritually meaningful and fulfilling to them, and the other doesn't.

This isn't to say that personal advice to someone about responsible family planning is necessarily wrong.  Only that judging someone for neglecting that advice isn't necessarily right.  It's more complicated than that.  And the implications of blanket condemnation for irresponsibly having children bear a lot of resemblance in principle and style to the likes of eugenics and prosperity gospel -- that being rich carries some intrinsic right to a life of purpose and everyone else exists to serve them, not to engage in meaning for themselves.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #29957 on: April 26, 2019, 06:54:37 pm »

I've toyed with the idea that millionaires and up should be prohibited from having any children.

They'd just elect pseudo heirs in that case, or their wealth would just transfer to corporate interests in full.
That... would arguably be an improvement, really. Especially if you stop the former from going to similarly wealthy heirs. Put some kind of limit on the latter (extra hard taxed, i'unno), too, and you'd possibly be a step on the road of breaking excessively generational wealth transfer over your knee. I could see it as a sort of "trickle down or get pissed on" thing. Not nearly enough on its own and you'd probably be way better off just taxing the rich blighters harder, but hey, every little bit.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #29958 on: April 26, 2019, 07:04:38 pm »

I mean, there are problems with that too. I think giving corporations control over a person's estate is goddam terrifying, and also you have no way of knowing that any named heir would be more or less responsible with their money.

Need to cease giving tax breaks to people that do not need them. Hard stop.
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #29959 on: April 26, 2019, 07:08:47 pm »

Don't banks already do that, having control of an estate? Or whatever happens to the estates of wealthy people who die without a will.
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Culise

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #29960 on: April 26, 2019, 07:10:28 pm »

I dunno; I think there's a certain elegance in solving inheritance problems by simply banning children.  A lot of problems could be solved just by banning children.  Global overpopulation?  Ban children.  Political dynasties?  Ban children.  Over-large carbon footprint?  Ban children.  Declining soil quality in agricultural areas due to overproduction?  Ban children.  Poor people having too many children?  Ban children. 
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #29961 on: April 26, 2019, 07:20:08 pm »

Better Idea: Ban human life past the age of 40. 30 if you have not produced a replacement. The human race continues, and we speed up the process of new ideas taking hold in society. None of this faffing around, you grow up, you create children, you educate them with your life experience, donezo. Carbon footprint reduced, accumulation of wealth reduced, no expectation of arbitrary terms of fulfillment into old age, population problems resolved.

Heck, this would have a more positive impact on the planet as a whole. Kids consume less of basically everything that drains our planet.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 07:24:10 pm by Dunamisdeos »
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Chevaleresse

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #29962 on: April 26, 2019, 07:22:26 pm »

I shudder to think of what would happen to the sciences without experts that have had 20+ years to accumulate knowledge.
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #29963 on: April 26, 2019, 07:25:41 pm »

Better Idea: Ban human life past the age of 40. 30 if you have not produced a replacement. The human race continues, and we speed up the process of new ideas taking hold in society. None of this faffing around, you grow up, you create children, you educate them with your life experience, donezo. Carbon footprint reduced, accumulation of wealth reduced, no expectation of arbitrary terms of fulfillment into old age, population problems resolved.

Heck, this would have a more positive impact on the planet as a whole. Kids consume less of basically everything that drains our planet.

I know theres been a dystopian movie or two with that kind of age cutoff, except that the one I know of has it at 50.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #29964 on: April 26, 2019, 07:26:50 pm »

I shudder to think of what would happen to the sciences without experts that have had 20+ years to accumulate knowledge.

We don't need it anymore. Medical sciences would be less taxed to a comical degree in comparison to what we need now. How many problems in our physiology only crop up in middle age? Most of them. Plenty of sciences have found advancements from those in the 30-40 range of life. We might progress slower, but it wouldn't be catastrophic.

It's not dystopian. It's logical. The goal is to reduce our effect on the planet, and according to the heroes of logical science our population is the primary driving force. We need children to perpetuate our existence. Obviously life expectancy is the place to make cuts.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 07:29:46 pm by Dunamisdeos »
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Chevaleresse

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #29965 on: April 26, 2019, 07:28:42 pm »

I know you're just taking the piss but I'm not certain some advancements are even possible without crusty old physicists to teach quantum mechanics to the newest generation or what have you. That sort of thing can take decades to achieve competence with.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #29966 on: April 26, 2019, 07:32:09 pm »

I know you're just taking the piss but I'm not certain some advancements are even possible without crusty old physicists to teach quantum mechanics to the newest generation or what have you. That sort of thing can take decades to achieve competence with.

I am taking the piss, you're right.

Just to take one last swipe, you don't need quantum physics if you don't need to leave the planet, which is now fine due to population controls.

EDIT, AND CHECKMATE:
Trump would not be President under my system, having been peacefully culled long ago.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 07:45:00 pm by Dunamisdeos »
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FACT I: Post note art is best art.
FACT II: Dunamisdeos is a forum-certified wordsmith.
FACT III: "All life begins with Post-it notes and ends with Post-it notes. This is the truth! This is my belief!...At least for now."
FACT IV: SPEECHO THE TRUSTWORM IS YOUR FRIEND or BEHOLD: THE FRUIT ENGINE 3.0

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #29967 on: April 26, 2019, 07:45:19 pm »

besides

all of those things are also solved by

you know


eating the rich
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #29968 on: April 26, 2019, 07:48:18 pm »

besides

all of those things are also solved by

you know


eating the rich

My plan can be altered to eat all those over the allotted age range.

Do we have an accord.

Also, you are now thinking about eating Donald Trump. Enjoy.
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FACT I: Post note art is best art.
FACT II: Dunamisdeos is a forum-certified wordsmith.
FACT III: "All life begins with Post-it notes and ends with Post-it notes. This is the truth! This is my belief!...At least for now."
FACT IV: SPEECHO THE TRUSTWORM IS YOUR FRIEND or BEHOLD: THE FRUIT ENGINE 3.0

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #29969 on: April 26, 2019, 07:49:33 pm »

Well, everybody here is telling me I should compromise...

EAT THE OLD RICH (AND ASSOCIATES)
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.
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