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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 1371881 times)

Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30030 on: April 30, 2019, 12:14:40 pm »

Anyhow, isn't making asylum seekers have to pay in order to seek asylum against international law? If not the spirit of it.
It's absolutely against the spirit of it. There's zero bloody question on that front.

Letter of the law (and more importantly domestic letter of the law given the US routinely wipes our ass with international law) is a different question, but spirit of it isn't a question at all. It's a blatant attempt to piss on said spirit.

... and yeah, corps aren't exactly much (or any) better at budget allocation. It's a very generic logistics issue.
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Grim Portent

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30031 on: April 30, 2019, 12:41:20 pm »

I mean the idea is just to correct when you over budget for something by not doing so in the following year, the problem of course being that expenditure each year isn't always the same. My dad used to work in middle management for telecomms companies and used to moan about the same stuff, with them pissing away part of their budgets each year just to justify having the same budget in future.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30032 on: April 30, 2019, 02:40:00 pm »

For example a close friend of mine was supposed to get federal assistance last year in paying for grad school and the money just... didn't arrive.  I think it eventually materialized months later so it was never stolen either.  The administration of "why don't we just not do our jobs?"

Did the graduate school itself have any part in the process?  Because if so, I wouldn't put it past them to have been the problem.  My experience has convinced me that graduate school administrations are black holes of incompetence.
Its entirely possible, most college administrations seem to make mistakes often.
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Maxô

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30033 on: April 30, 2019, 04:31:12 pm »

We aren't trying to teach fear of punishment, we're teaching cause and effect at the very least, and right and wrong in many cases.

The knock-on effects of that can be unpredictable, though; there's a point where a kid learns not only "if my parents become aware of things they don't like, I get hurt" but also "if I don't like what's going on, I should hurt people weaker than me until I feel better." It happens sooner than people think, too. Kids don't always advertise when they've figured stuff out, particularly if you react negatively to them telling you things.

It's also very hard to de-escalate from that back to reasoning with them, because you can't logic them out of something you didn't logic them into -- so, ultimately, everything is either a threat or a suggestion. I can tell you from experience that once a kid raised under that paradigm gets strong enough that the threats stop working, you're essentially done parenting them.
I'm happy I don't have any kids to deal with anymore, but while I was the only times I've ever actually smacked a kid were always a situation where I look over just in time to see a little hand reaching towards something that is going to suuuuuuuuuuck so bad if they actually get their target. Trying to say "hey grabbing that handle is going to dump a pot of hot stew on your head why wasn't it turned facing the back of the stove so please take a couple steps away from it for me?" isn't really guaranteed to work or even feasible if it was. So if if comes down to watching shit unfold or acting, I'm gonna flick out a mommacat pop to deflect/block the hand before apologizing and explaining exactly why it was my bad for not pre-emptively fixing those sorts of problems. I would have rather avoided the whole situation but I missed something that could be really dangerous, and because I can't easily fix the kinds of things that could have happened I did that. So, yay, that didn't go badly and you're just a little startled instead of seriously injured so I can totally fix that with a hug and a piggyback ride for having to thwap your hand suddenly.

When they get older and decide to deliberately start pumping out assholery and being a hardheaded little shit or straight up ignoring me when I'm trying to chill things out and show them a better way to go about that shit? Well, you ever had someone lock their middle finger behind their thumb and thwack you with it?

I don't do that but I will fwoosh one past your ear as a "hey, leave being an asshole to the professionals, little padawan" attention getter when you turn to stomp off or go back to your phone or whatever fit is being thrown. It's like when you got water in your ear and then the pressure floofs out and it drains and you can hear all sorts of shit again afterwards. THWA-POOMPH!

Also works great with cats that think they're clever by getting up on the counter to rummage in the cabinets... slink up silently, THWA-POOMPH past their ear, they instantly go as flat as they can and try to launch themselves anywhere else, assuming they lucked out on the near miss and learning that naughty counter kitties might randomly encounter sneaky fingerthwacks of doom!
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30034 on: April 30, 2019, 05:43:56 pm »

Uh, hey folks, some shit is going down for reals in Venezuela today.

Disturbing imagery warning, for real. Military jeeps deliberately ran over some protesters. Trump also directly threatening blockades and such of Cuba on account of their military support, though that seems not directly related to this specific event. You'd think alone that would result in some sort of media response, though. There's surprisingly little mainstream news coverage for this in the US, not sure if that lends or removes credibility to the story.

This article has a lot of info on the situation.
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30035 on: April 30, 2019, 05:51:35 pm »

There's video of it, yes. Pretty sure there was mention over in the Latin America thread.

The lack of mainstream coverage is completely fucking expected, though. Nothing surprising about it. Stateside media in particular has a persistent and lengthy history of just not talking about anything happening south of the border. Significant or persistent coverage is pretty close to guaranteed to not happen.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30036 on: April 30, 2019, 05:53:13 pm »

That and, you know, our government is actively trying to knock over Venezuela and loot the country for everything its got. Of course the big companies aren't allowed to talk about it outside the government line.
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30037 on: April 30, 2019, 06:46:49 pm »

There's video of it, yes. Pretty sure there was mention over in the Latin America thread.

The lack of mainstream coverage is completely fucking expected, though. Nothing surprising about it. Stateside media in particular has a persistent and lengthy history of just not talking about anything happening south of the border. Significant or persistent coverage is pretty close to guaranteed to not happen.

Yeah, I did mention it, with a The Guardian link. Though they didn't have a video embedded, just a link. It did get mentioned on CNN briefly, but I guess the media treats it like par for the course which is why it didn't get talked about more.
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30038 on: April 30, 2019, 08:08:07 pm »

Back to politics, Betsy Devos is the actual fucking satan devil and I'll fight everyone on that.
Only Americans would look at "6 digit student debt not eliminated by bankruptcy" and think "man our civil servants don't deserve that but everyone else does."

Only the current administration would intentionally fail to fix even that narrow problem and let a 700 million dollar budget sit around.  264 applicants accepted is getting into "every last one of them had a personal contact" territory.

Ehh... yeah I'm kind of stupefied we even have a program like "give $700M to forgive debt of civil servants" but non civil servants are then stuck with paying their own debt and the civil servants' via taxes.  Although - $700M doesn't really go that far.  It's maybe the debt of like 20,000 people, at $30k forgiven each.  Incidentally, $30k is about the income tax of 4 filers... average is apparently $8400 in federal income tax per filer.


Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30039 on: April 30, 2019, 08:55:21 pm »

I mean the main thing that got me is the utter gall of backing a program like that publicly then just publicly forcing it to fail.

Like do you really think we aren't watching???
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30040 on: April 30, 2019, 09:01:57 pm »

Why would you think fucking devos and her ilk would give a damn even if people are watching? If they were capable of feeling shame or whatever they wouldn't be the sort of scum they are to begin with.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30041 on: April 30, 2019, 09:45:26 pm »

Back to politics, Betsy Devos is the actual fucking satan devil and I'll fight everyone on that.
Only Americans would look at "6 digit student debt not eliminated by bankruptcy" and think "man our civil servants don't deserve that but everyone else does."

Only the current administration would intentionally fail to fix even that narrow problem and let a 700 million dollar budget sit around.  264 applicants accepted is getting into "every last one of them had a personal contact" territory.

Ehh... yeah I'm kind of stupefied we even have a program like "give $700M to forgive debt of civil servants" but non civil servants are then stuck with paying their own debt and the civil servants' via taxes.  Although - $700M doesn't really go that far.  It's maybe the debt of like 20,000 people, at $30k forgiven each.  Incidentally, $30k is about the income tax of 4 filers... average is apparently $8400 in federal income tax per filer.


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Maybe if big companies actually paid taxes we could use that money to unfuck higher education.  Probably help seeing as they love demanding diplomas for even the most basic jobs.

Its actually to the point where I pay the fed and then they turn around and give Amazon a massive tax refund.  So really I pay taxes to Amazon.  Prime Taxes.
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hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30042 on: April 30, 2019, 09:52:40 pm »

Well itís not just Amazon. Massive cut to corporation tax means your paying taxes to all the corporations, just to cut out the middleman.

Why make them compete for your hard earned wages when the government can just give it to them direct?
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Trekkin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30043 on: April 30, 2019, 10:14:21 pm »

Ehh... yeah I'm kind of stupefied we even have a program like "give $700M to forgive debt of civil servants" but non civil servants are then stuck with paying their own debt and the civil servants' via taxes.  Although - $700M doesn't really go that far.  It's maybe the debt of like 20,000 people, at $30k forgiven each.  Incidentally, $30k is about the income tax of 4 filers... average is apparently $8400 in federal income tax per filer.

"TaXeS DoN't FuNd AnYtHiNg" semantic games aside, that's kind of like saying you pay your own debt and that of farmers by buying food. Sure, taxes are mandatory while food is technically optional, but that's kind of the point of having government as a mechanism for doing the things we all need but nobody wants to pay for (at least, not without making them functionally useless.)

Those programs exist in part because without them those jobs would be literally unaffordable for the vast majority of the college-educated workforce, and much as a generation of sociopaths has turned the idea of government service into a punchline you do in fact want the people maintaining the government to know what they're doing. Postgraduate education is the same way; we want scientists, but lots of undergrads can't afford to be grad students.

Now, the direct causation crowd will of course leap in here to say that all the jobs we want "should" pay more, but that's not as simple as it sounds.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30044 on: April 30, 2019, 11:58:41 pm »

Back to politics, Betsy Devos is the actual fucking satan devil and I'll fight everyone on that.
Only Americans would look at "6 digit student debt not eliminated by bankruptcy" and think "man our civil servants don't deserve that but everyone else does."

Only the current administration would intentionally fail to fix even that narrow problem and let a 700 million dollar budget sit around.  264 applicants accepted is getting into "every last one of them had a personal contact" territory.
Ehh... yeah I'm kind of stupefied we even have a program like "give $700M to forgive debt of civil servants" but non civil servants are then stuck with paying their own debt and the civil servants' via taxes.  Although - $700M doesn't really go that far.  It's maybe the debt of like 20,000 people, at $30k forgiven each.  Incidentally, $30k is about the income tax of 4 filers... average is apparently $8400 in federal income tax per filer.

What you gonna spend that $2.30 which will have a better return on investment than enabling 20,000 Americans to get out of debt and therefore start saving, being more productive and happier?
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