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[wierd]

Hell bro, I work in an LTC facility.  Most of the people I care for can't tell the difference between a trashcan and a toilet, and I wish that was hyperbole. But it's not.

While going senile is not part of the normal aging process, it is a phenomenon that is on the rise.  In another 20 years time, most politicos in their 80s will likely have dementia. That's the current trend.

Something has to be done, and ignoring the problem is not the correct answer.

[Folly]

So interesting to see “Progressive” Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done. These places need your help badly, you can’t leave fast enough. I’m sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1150381394234941448?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

POTUS seems to have decided that the morning of his ICE raids would be the perfect time for some drunk tweeting.

[Naturegirl1999]

I’m a bit confused, does Trump not know the corruption of our own government? If governments in other places are corrupt, the people he is talking about can figure out things the government can to to limit corruption, if everyone in the government wasn’t already corrupt, that is

[hector13]

lol the POTUS is telling democratically elected candidates in a country built on immigration to fuck off back to their own country lol stop spinning world I want to get off.

[Naturegirl1999]

Yes, our president is being stupid, luckily we have checks and balances...right.

[smjjames]

Ironically, he’s including AOC in there who was herself born in NYC and while her father was also born in NYC, both parents have origins in Puerto Rico, which btw, is an AMERICAN TERRITORY.

[Il Palazzo]

Once a birther always a birther. Nothing new under the sun.

[wierd]

verifiable reality has no meaning to True Believers.

It does not matter what the "True Belief" happens to be, it will always supersede what is veritably correct.


"EARTH IS FLAT!" vs "No, you can totally measure shadows and shit, and show..."

"EARTH IS 6000 YEARS OLD!" vs "No, you can totally perform radio isotope analysis of old rock strata and..."

and of course--

"IMMIGRANTS ARE RUINING THE COUNTRY!"  vs "Great, the Native Americans want you to move back to Europe as soon as possible."

"OBAMA WAS BORN IN KENYA!" vs "Dude, we have his birth certificate..."

etc.

This is one of the reasons why I really hate the word "belief."

[Naturegirl1999]

verifiable reality has no meaning to True Believers.

It does not matter what the "True Belief" happens to be, it will always supersede what is veritably correct.


"EARTH IS FLAT!" vs "No, you can totally measure shadows and shit, and show..."

"EARTH IS 6000 YEARS OLD!" vs "No, you can totally perform radio isotope analysis of old rock strata and..."

and of course--

"IMMIGRANTS ARE RUINING THE COUNTRY!"  vs "Great, the Native Americans want you to move back to Europe as soon as possible."

"OBAMA WAS BORN IN KENYA!" vs "Dude, we have his birth certificate..."

etc.

This is one of the reasons why I really hate the word "belief."

I am confused why people discount reality. It makes no sense. When I tell people facts they don’t like, they say that it’s just my opinion.  This mostly happens in church, though. Some people prefer to believe the Bible over actual reality. It’s ok to believe a religion so long as you don’t discount reality, they say, the problem is, that people who believe in religion tend to shut out reality. Fortunately this isn’t everyone, but it is what seems like a large amount.

[JoshuaFH]

verifiable reality has no meaning to True Believers.

It does not matter what the "True Belief" happens to be, it will always supersede what is veritably correct.


"EARTH IS FLAT!" vs "No, you can totally measure shadows and shit, and show..."

"EARTH IS 6000 YEARS OLD!" vs "No, you can totally perform radio isotope analysis of old rock strata and..."

and of course--

"IMMIGRANTS ARE RUINING THE COUNTRY!"  vs "Great, the Native Americans want you to move back to Europe as soon as possible."

"OBAMA WAS BORN IN KENYA!" vs "Dude, we have his birth certificate..."

etc.

This is one of the reasons why I really hate the word "belief."

I am confused why people discount reality. It makes no sense. When I tell people facts they don’t like, they say that it’s just my opinion.  This mostly happens in church, though. Some people prefer to believe the Bible over actual reality. It’s ok to believe a religion so long as you don’t discount reality, they say, the problem is, that people who believe in religion tend to shut out reality. Fortunately this isn’t everyone, but it is what seems like a large amount.

I think it simply amounts to people being suspicious of logic, reasoning, and science as simply the new smoke and mirrors to fool people, win arguments, and have your way; they don't recognize them as the actual facts of the world, so much as tactics to get what you want. You can show people verifiable facts, but for all they care it all boils down to just having to take someone's word for it; and who's word are you going to believe in the world that seems to be entirely run on lies, fast talking, trickery, and incomprehensible bullshit; and it all seems to be getting run into the ground by megalomaniacs with too much money and not enough common sense? Really, the only thing to believe is what makes you feel the most secure and safe with the world, and that is usually a pretty insane belief.

[Folly]

To be fair, the entire human history of scientific progress has basically been a long chain of new proofs which prove that the last proofs were somehow wrong. Odds are pretty good that anything we accept as fact today will be proven false sooner or later.

Not that this makes blind faith any less illogical.

[Naturegirl1999]

To be fair, the entire human history of scientific progress has basically been a long chain of new proofs which prove that the last proofs were somehow wrong. Odds are pretty good that anything we accept as fact today will be proven false sooner or later.

Not that this makes blind faith any less illogical.

Yes, however disproving the proofs was done with experiments, it wasn’t simply written in a book with no evidence to back it up. It’s good to question things, but do experiments to test things, don’t just listen to a book.
(I’m agreeing with you, while adding thoughts, I mention this since sometimes I say things that cause confusing interpretations of my thoughts on things)

[wierd]

Not exactly---

Science is about showing what is not true, rather than what is true.  It's about falsification.


For example, one can demonstrate the falsity of the claim that the earth is flat, using simple trigonometry with noon-time shadows at different longitudes. (The Greeks figured this out thousands of years ago.) This does not prove that the earth is spherical; More modern measurements show that it is somewhat lumpy, rather than actually "round".  Such measurements demonstrate the falsity of claiming roundness. 

Likewise, we have progressions in quality of predictions using mathematical models of physical processes. Notable examples are classic Newtonian physics, vs Einsteinian relativity vs Quantum physics.  Each is a step that falsifies some of the features of its predecessors, and produces a superior (better represents direct observation) model of the universe's mechanics. At some point, we will "Actually have a genuine understanding", at which point revision of the model will not be possible.  There are some people that think this might be happening with particle physics, since the standard model has held resolute for so long, and more exotic models have not had the same success at predictions that SM has had, even though "there are strange things happening at the circle K", like dark energy, dark matter, and pals, which hint at broken symmetries and other interesting physics just around the corner.

The process is all about elimination of what can be proven to be false, eventually leaving either only that which is true, or that which is inscrutably ambiguous. (and yes, some things are fundamentally unknowable. For instance, knowing both the vector of movement and the position of a quantum particle.) 

Either way, there is methodology and data that exists OUTSIDE of the human mind or its symbols, which demonstrate the falsity of human derived symbolic representations of reality. (EG, actual reality, vs perceived reality.)

The refusal of those methods and that data, in favor of the internally produced symbolic representation is the fundamental issue here. It is a refusal of accepting a truly shared external, and uncaring reality as the true existence outside of our personal experiences, and the preferential clinging to the models our minds have created instead, regardless of their demonstrable falseness.

[Max™]

All of the years I've spent studying, experimenting, reconsidering potentially outdated information, and generally trying to figure out where I might be wrong so I can fix errors is time I consider well spent.

We're all capable of being wrong, that part is easy.

Learning how to admit mistakes and fix errors in your own understanding? That can take a lifetime or more.

All of the time I've tried to extend the same error correction to help others avoid being wrong has ultimately been disappointing because I didn't realize something obvious in hindsight.

You cannot fix a comfortable but erroneous belief with any number of less pleasant facts.

[wierd]

bingo!