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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 1312920 times)

Iduno

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32190 on: September 12, 2019, 08:07:56 am »

I guess my reaction was because it reads like "The only way to pay off your loans is to win the job lotto and get a $175k a year job".  Or maybe that's the point - the claims that really the only way to get out of debt is to win a lotto or be super-well connected so you can get elected to Congress?

My opinion is probably clouded because when I graduated college in 2000 I had a debt to income ratio of about 50% - that is, my student loans the day I graduated was about 50% of my annual salary, and at 6.5% interest rate.  Also, I got scholarships so only had to pay for 1 year (out of 4) of college.  So my brain rationalizes that prices today are lower, if the average is only paying twice as much for four times (or more, since average students take more than 4 years now) as many years of school.

So when I hear complaints, about debt burden - I guess I just can't relate, because I worked to not need a lot of debt, and then I worked to pay off the debt I had.  I'm also in that weird demographic age right at the end of Gen X; I remember growing up even noting that the worldviews and lifestyles of the kids as few as 2 years younger than me were very different than mine and my peer groups'.  That still holds - my worldview in general is more optimistic and "if you work hard you will probably get ahead" (opposed to today's sentiment that even if you work hard, you probably won't get ahead).

So I'm sad all around - I feel on one hand that there's something wrong that people can't figure out how to plan and make things work.  I'm sad that conditions have changed such that it is in fact more difficult (in sheer numbers, if not on a percentage basis) for students to get consistent employment to support their debt.  I'm sad that society has done something to education in general, such that it feels like for the first time in a long time, we have a generation where people say "education today is not better than it was when I was a student" (opposed to the past 2 centuries, where most people confidently said things were getting better).  I'm sad that the current young-adult generation is so disenfranchised and flat out fearful.

You got paid to work during college? Unpaid work (internships, mostly) is a requirement more and more. It helps keep people down, so I assume it will become more common.
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32191 on: September 12, 2019, 08:27:51 am »

You got paid to work during college? Unpaid work (internships, mostly) is a requirement more and more. It helps keep people down, so I assume it will become more common.

They seriously don't think that far ahead, that internships are "keeping people down" in some sort of class warfare sense. Internships exist purely because they can get away with it. It's a labor supply and demand thing. If there's a shortage of people with the right diploma they'll start paying you for your internship, or just skip to locking you in with a job.

EDIT: also to the point: there's a supply of people willing to do it. If nobody was willing to take the unpaid internships, you'd find the practice abolished almost instantly. It's only a thing because you and fellow workers let it be a thing. It's only a "requirement" because there are people willing to do it, the companies cannot enforce the existence of unpaid internships.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 08:39:17 am by Reelya »
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Doomblade187

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32192 on: September 12, 2019, 08:44:16 am »

You got paid to work during college? Unpaid work (internships, mostly) is a requirement more and more. It helps keep people down, so I assume it will become more common.

They seriously don't think that far ahead, that internships are "keeping people down" in some sort of class warfare sense. Internships exist purely because they can get away with it. It's a labor supply and demand thing. If there's a shortage of people with the right diploma they'll start paying you for your internship, or just skip to locking you in with a job.
Well, yeah, they do it because they can, but a strong shortage of people with the right diploma, etc. ain't stopping anyone from still running unpaid internships. They're less popular yes, but I'm pretty sure game devs are still preying on people new to the industry with that BS.

What I'm saying is we should criminalize wage theft, especially unpaid internships (maybe a carve-out for non-profits or small business.
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32193 on: September 12, 2019, 11:55:37 am »

Another example at the sort of things that prevent people from "getting ahead".
I think the only way, ultimately, that you can get rid of corruption and abuse of power is by instilling in people mutual respect.  I don't think you can do it by laws alone.  Yes, we can have laws that say you can't discriminate, but you can't make a law that causes people to actually respect and value each other.

We do have laws that try to prevent expression of disrespect (banning hate speech, etc.) but those laws don't address why that sentiment was there in the first place.
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Hanslanda

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32194 on: September 12, 2019, 12:16:09 pm »

Excellent piece Salmon, I loved reading it. Right now I'm pinning all my hopes on joining the military, and if I get rejected for joining, I honestly don't even know what I'm going to do; I just don't see another viable path for advancing out of the "Hopeless Plebeian Trash" caste of the economy, and by extension getting any of the things I really want out of life.

You mentioned suicide, and I think the rash of mass shooting throughout America is just another extension of that, just another way to commit suicide while also dealing damage (however futile) to the society that created them to be so miserable in the first place. That's my theory.

This. If I don't get in the Navy I can stay at my trashy job, get marginalized and overworked more and more, then eventually fired or quit, or I can try to get a job pipelining or welding or something.
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Iduno

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32195 on: September 12, 2019, 12:48:34 pm »

You got paid to work during college? Unpaid work (internships, mostly) is a requirement more and more. It helps keep people down, so I assume it will become more common.

They seriously don't think that far ahead, that internships are "keeping people down" in some sort of class warfare sense. Internships exist purely because they can get away with it. It's a labor supply and demand thing. If there's a shortage of people with the right diploma they'll start paying you for your internship, or just skip to locking you in with a job.

EDIT: also to the point: there's a supply of people willing to do it. If nobody was willing to take the unpaid internships, you'd find the practice abolished almost instantly. It's only a thing because you and fellow workers let it be a thing. It's only a "requirement" because there are people willing to do it, the companies cannot enforce the existence of unpaid internships.

People tried that. That's why they're now mandatory. Of fucking course there's a supply of people willing to do it when their choices are 1) take unpaid work to finish your degree so you can get a job or 2) go work at a below-poverty wage elsewhere. The only people who can afford to work without pay are already doing well financially, and have families who are doing well enough to cover for them.
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Doomblade187

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32196 on: September 12, 2019, 03:05:24 pm »

Hmm, apparently the Supreme court has allowed a Trump administration policy to take effect that says the US won't honor asylum applications if the applicant hasn't applied to the countries they traveled through already.

The policy is still in court, but it can now go into effect.
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In any case it would be a battle of critical thinking and I refuse to fight an unarmed individual.
One mustn't stare into the pathos, lest one become Pathos.

Zangi

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32197 on: September 12, 2019, 03:40:37 pm »

Watch those countries make a fast track passthrough asylum classification.
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32198 on: September 13, 2019, 12:07:24 am »

I saw something about Uber (or maybe it was Lyft) refusing to do that despite the law.
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Doomblade187

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32199 on: September 13, 2019, 12:58:07 am »

"Uber is a technology company" is their excuse there.
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Dunamisdeos

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Trolldefender99

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32202 on: September 13, 2019, 05:24:12 pm »

I was disappointed by Andrew's Yang performance. My biggest thing with him, even though it feels like he is bribing people especially with his announcement of giving 10k a year to 10 people...with 1k monthly income I can finally upgrade my 10+ year old PC. That is a bigger income I make each month than my disability I get. No other candidate is wanting to help low income earners with having a bigger income, when working isn't an option. I guess tax would go up for most people, but don't care tax the rich and give me that money. Its time they pay up. Granted, I know nothing else of andrew yang except his attempt at what I consider bribing people to support him lol.

In any case. No other candidate is going to upgrade my PC for me, no other candidate is going to help me feed myself or pay my rent or bills which are crazy high in california. I can't live in the tiniest shack in california on my income. And andrew yang is the only candidate that would make a difference for so many people.

Sadly his (andrew yang) performance was pretty terrible this go around. At least biden and kamala both did good for most part, they are my #2 and #3 choice. A lot of the other candidates are crazy stalin loving socialists (though maybe andrew yang falls under that department? Oh well. Like I said, know nothing about him I just want 1k a month thats more than I earn each month lol), not quite as bad as trump supporters but definitely not worth supporting or having my vote. Except andrew yang, I think he falls under that (dunno tbh) but hey its free 1k every month :P If looking at the greater whole and not personally, its good people are still supporting biden. And kamala is doing pretty good though biden is constantly topping by far the most in polling.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 05:32:12 pm by Trolldefender99 »
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32203 on: September 13, 2019, 05:49:48 pm »

wwhere the candidates stand on finances and certain policies
I think this may be helpful in candidate deciding

hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32204 on: September 13, 2019, 05:51:37 pm »

I liked Bidenís old man ramble at the end.
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