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[The Ensorceler]

We know the current and expected makeup of congress, and the type of bills that the House is passing right now. There is very little curtain-pulling to be done there. People were making this argument the first time around that Trump would FiX tHe DeMoCrAtS and ReAlLy ShOw ThEm. It doesn't work. The process, nudged or not, came up with Biden. Or are you gonna be there in four years arguing that what we really need to get our eyes open is an end to term limits and four *more* years of Trump?

You can still organize for bigger change without your proud little I Didn't Vote! sticker. Please give me the fucking Equality Act. And some anti-voter-suppression law to *really* put your theories about the limits of voting to the test on a level playing field. And Betsy Devos having her teeth out of the guts of the public school system.

Remember when we had a Cabinet that wasn't systematically butchering every aspect of the country? You complain that if Biden is elected you'll have trained the Democtats to run more Bidens. What the fuck do you do if Trump becomes the model by winning again? His numbers are abysmal even among evangelicals right now, and everybody's gonna pretend they never heard of him if he flubs it.He'll be an ever present shadow looming over anyone trying to replicate his one term. The attack ads will be pinning anyone trying to ride that strategy to the man that rolled America over to Covid 19 and crashed the economy. He won because people thought he was different. When anyone following in his footsteps can't claim to be different, they'll be completely fucked. You want an end to Trump candidates? Prove they can't win.

[Doomblade187]

Do not believe that the white evangelicals will not support Trump. They will. It's part of the culture they're immersed in day to day, and people high up in evangelical circles are are planning massive GOTV efforts.

Edit: also, Trump is culture warring about reopening churches - aimed directly at firing up his base.

[The Ensorceler]

Yeah, because they actually flinched in a poll because of how bad it's gotten. When every church that opens kills 5-20 of them with a Trump sticker slapped on the coffin? I never said they'd change their politics. I said they'd pretend they didnt fuck over the country or vote for Trump. Many will vote for him, but quietly because they dont want to be known for it. That's lower turnout among acquaintances, and weaker protests against dissenting opinions at the dinner table.

Well... it's that or Q-Anon to shield the ego from consequences. But either way Trump needs to be believed to be a fluke, which means not treating him like one. It means manufacturing him into one with every voter you can reach (try and keep 'em activated past the election, too, make sure the electorate is strong enough he'd have never won in the first place).

[wierd]

No, I will NOT vote for Biden. 

Let me explain to you why.  If I (and millions of other disenfranchised young voters) fall in line behind the Biden banner, just because Trump is an unbearable ass out to literally turn the US into a totalitarian regime that would make the Nazis proud, it sends the DNC the message that they were "right", they can "Continue to engineer disasters that force us to vote for them", and "Continue to marginalize and demonize" us. You know, all that rhetoric about how we "just want free stuff" and the like? Yeah, you will get more of that-- AND they wont walk back ANY of the totalitarianism Trump Turd has ramrodded through.

They want to play chicken with a madman, I will merrily let them destroy the country, rather than give them my support. Pull the fucking trigger bitches. I dare you.

As for magically expecting Trump term 2 to somehow fix their big business and big media fellatio addiction problems, and their "WINNING!" strategy of playing all the minorities against each other, NO, NOT IN HELL.

What I expect to happen is for Trump to drop the economy so hard on its goddamn ass, that there arent any such groups to fellate anymore, and thus make them realize that the only game left, is the game they should have played from the start. 

[sluissa]

You do you. But let's not kid ourselves. You MIGHT have been able to blame the DNC for Hillary. But the DNC didn't give us Biden. That was our own fault. We, the electorate, did this to ourselves. There may have been a nudge here or there, but you don't get primary races where Biden outperforms Sanders 2 to 1 in just about every state since South Carolina and Clyburn's endorsement. Just from the DNC's thumb on the scales.

The Democratic voters chose him, for better or for worse, and now they have to swallow the medicine, no matter how bad it tastes.

[Doomblade187]

Well, the Democratic voters who don't support his policies aren't obliged to support him. I definitely agree that a Biden presidency would be less destructive than a Trump one, but I'm not exactly excited for it, ya know.

Edit: look, my point is that Biden and campaign have done nothing to reach out to the entire fucking third to a half of the party that didn't support them. And that's a problem..

[DemonOfWrath]

The not reaching out and expecting people to fall in line isn't/wasn't exactly isolated to the moderate wing of the democrats. Remember a big part of why Bernie lost was he didn't make any attempt to reach out to the two-thirds of the party who didn't support him, even when he was winning and had the perfect chance to do so and consolidate his lead (and instead he deliberately stoked their fears, no wonder they banded together so quickly). Honestly it really feels like the left one-third was expecting everyone else to fall in line and shut up if Bernie won.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Literally this thread spent months complaining about the "fanaticism" of the Bernie campaign and its ceaseless attempts to involve the entire country. Don't start complaining about the sour grapes now.

Since shutting up and falling in line is all the centrists ever do, it'd be nice if they'd do it for someone who isn't a monster. But America, true to form, ain't gonna listen to your god-damn solutions! Love it or leave it! We are a sick people, and we do not want to be cured. The public will is borderline suicidal, and really, it looks like fate is choosing to deliver pretty promptly on that one.

[DemonOfWrath]

As an outsider is seemed more like it spent months fawning over Bernie and his campaign (and not gonna lie as a non-american I'm baffled by how much you guys near-worship some of your politicians). And while it may have been trying to involve the rest of the country it wasn't adjusting to it. Repetition and doubling down does not count as cooperating with everyone else, regardless of volume. Simply put, it looks like all these criticisms of centrists and how uncooperative they are with the left applies the other way round as well. I have no doubts that if Bernie won people on the left would be accusing the centrists of sour grapes for not enthusiastically jumping aboard the Bernie bus as it existed.

Biden has done more than Bernie did to try to reach out to the other side of the party. And before anyone says he hasn't done much there, yeah that's my point. It's a low bar.

[The Ensorceler]

@weird You're voting (or campaigning for, which is the same thing) for Trump in the hopes he kills us all? What the FUCK. I was assured by several people here that I was mistaken and nobody was doing this kind of wacko accelerationism.

Also rich people are obselete and the megarich aren't vulnerable to an economic collapse in the same way as the Great Depression, it just provides new opportunities to exploit.

[wierd]

NOPE! 

Here is my position:

If you're (Mainstream Democratic party) going to threaten me with Trump ("We gotta band together to STOP TRUMP! (nevermind that we have been demonizing you as a soft trump supporter since his first campaign for not supporting our precious hillary, and beating the bush of that kind of boogieman for decades and are little boys who cried wolf, and now have an actual wolf in the building!)"), I will threaten you right back. (Little boys who cry wolf, get fucking eaten.) You guys need to figure out which is more terrifying to you; Your taxes going up a little to pay for the infrastructure you have neglected for the past 50+ years, or watching the country turn into Nazi Germany 2.0

I will NOT support your continued delusions that the status quo is some fantastic utopia. When the paint peels off the facade of your potempkin village, maybe you will realize it was fake and a fantasy. (Biden represents "the lesser evil!! Dont you want the LESSER evil!?".  You had the chance to elect not-evil. You guys were so afraid of losing your precious fucking money, that you banded together to prevent it, **EXPECTING** us to just accept whatever slime you could scrape off your asses. No. The best option we have is to make you lose your money, AND your asses, by letting you experience the full power of what Trump is doubling down with right now. When you no longer have your precious money to worry about, you wont be so glamoured by the likes of Biden, whispering sweet nothings at you, and you will do what you should have done to begin with.)


In short, DO NOT threaten me with trump.  You had your chance, now enjoy him. The notion that you can force us at "Trump-point" to just roll over, and take it in the ass like always, is dead.

[The Ensorceler]

Im trans and voted for Bernie. I am not your wealthy elite, I just dont want all my friends to fucking die. You do not get to advocate for that. Also boy who cried wolf 1, Nixon Reagan Bush 2 were pretty hefty wolves you seem to have forgotten about, and 2, the moral of little boy who cried wolf is not to side with the wolf because eh, kid had it coming, its to use reliable information sources.

[wierd]

And yet your valiant hunter, Obama, not only cuddled with the wolves, he outright refused to do anything about the corpses they left behind.


THE FUCKING POINT, was that your "Status quo Lesser Evil", WILL NOT SAVE YOU.

[The Ensorceler]

They will if you stop getting monsters elected. You know what would really show the Dem's? If the wolves stopped being scary by winning all the time, and people didn't have to settle for lesser evil candidates. When the Dem's are the conservative party in this country I'll be happy. It'll take the Republican Party dying right here, this election, to Congress passing an end to voter suppression and gerrymandering.

edit: and stop saying i deserve to get nazid, i havent done shit to you to deserve that

[Egan_BW]

i vote less evil, because less evil is more gooder