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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 3600160 times)

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37020 on: May 28, 2020, 11:06:41 am »

The economy is built on theft, so "looting" is just bringing some balance to an already unjust system. I am sure Target Corporation will somehow find it in their hearts to get over it.
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martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37021 on: May 28, 2020, 11:11:29 am »

Robin Hood might be a thief but the sherrif is the villain
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We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

Doomblade187

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37022 on: May 28, 2020, 11:20:42 am »

I'm watching a 2 1/2 hour video of the scene near the 3rd precinct as the condo building burns down.  Minority owned business left pristine.
Do you have confirmation on this? Really my only concern with the riot.

Also, this song is rather fitting for this week:
Nobody's Biz
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In any case it would be a battle of critical thinking and I refuse to fight an unarmed individual.
One mustn't stare into the pathos, lest one become Pathos.

LordBaal

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37023 on: May 28, 2020, 11:25:45 am »

What about looting then?

Why wouldn't they?  This economy wasn't built for them.  That's the real occupation.  The police are just the executive enforcers of it.  Looting is the purest, most direct backlash against that power structure.

Floyd was murdered for writing a check at a grocery store.

Edit:  Correction.  Writing a check is what I had heard.  Fact-checking myself, I'm seeing references to a $10 bill that the store suspected to be counterfeit.  Can't definitively determine which is true at the moment.  It's not a point any reporting is focusing on (surprisingly).  Either way, it was an issue of *suspected* currency forgery, and the point stands.
Dont you have those checking machines everywhere? You simply put the bill in it and if the machine says is fake you refuse the bill and thats it.
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TamerVirus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37024 on: May 28, 2020, 11:27:40 am »

Well, at least the suffering of the downtrodden and oppressed can be alleviated by THIS BRAND NEW FLAT SCREEN TELEVISION (cue Price is Right theme)
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Doomblade187

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37025 on: May 28, 2020, 11:29:22 am »

What about looting then?

Why wouldn't they?  This economy wasn't built for them.  That's the real occupation.  The police are just the executive enforcers of it.  Looting is the purest, most direct backlash against that power structure.

Floyd was murdered for writing a check at a grocery store.

Edit:  Correction.  Writing a check is what I had heard.  Fact-checking myself, I'm seeing references to a $10 bill that the store suspected to be counterfeit.  Can't definitively determine which is true at the moment.  It's not a point any reporting is focusing on (surprisingly).  Either way, it was an issue of *suspected* currency forgery, and the point stands.
Dont you have those checking machines everywhere? You simply put the bill in it and if the machine says is fake you refuse the bill and thats it.
Never tried it myself, but I'm pretty sure you can get the cops called for suspected counterfeit money. Probably depends on management tbh.
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In any case it would be a battle of critical thinking and I refuse to fight an unarmed individual.
One mustn't stare into the pathos, lest one become Pathos.

LordBaal

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37026 on: May 28, 2020, 11:32:54 am »

Well to be honest it migth be more of a cultural and situational thing. Here since our own money is worthless most people are using dollars for effective transactions. In like 99% of the places where this happens people have machines of all kind and forms to check the bills. If the machine says is a counterfeit then your payment with that bill is refused and thats it. Either you leave or try with other bill.
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

Doomblade187

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37027 on: May 28, 2020, 11:42:34 am »

That makes sense. Sorry for not responding to your PM yet, btw. Things are going well. :)

Also, very comprehensive article regarding George Floyd, his apprehension, and the protests: https://www.theroot.com/protests-erupt-in-minneapolis-for-2nd-straight-night-af-1843728673
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In any case it would be a battle of critical thinking and I refuse to fight an unarmed individual.
One mustn't stare into the pathos, lest one become Pathos.

SalmonGod

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37028 on: May 28, 2020, 11:42:39 am »

I'm watching a 2 1/2 hour video of the scene near the 3rd precinct as the condo building burns down.  Minority owned business left pristine.
Do you have confirmation on this? Really my only concern with the riot.

This is the video I'm watching.  It's right at the beginning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbohekheQUE

And to be clear, riots are going to be chaotic and things that shouldn't happen will happen.  Participation isn't controlled.  Lots of people involved aren't exactly intellectual.  There will be those who don't care and just take advantage to get away with stuff they couldn't normally.

But stuff like what's pointed out at the very beginning of this video indicates that people overall have some understanding of where to direct their anger.  It's not indiscriminate.  And that tends to be the case at all riots motivated by injustice.

And direct retribution isn't the point.  If direct retribution was possible, then a riot wouldn't happen in the first place.  The point is to distribute the absence of peace.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 11:55:09 am by SalmonGod »
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37029 on: May 28, 2020, 12:10:15 pm »

There's a serious difference between civil disobedience and rioting, though.

"Distribute the absence of peace" - that is so far outside my worldview I can't understand it.  My worldview calls that "violence".  You can't "distribute" violence, you can only conduct it.  You can't say "oh that was 10 units of violence, so we can spread it around so 10 people only get one unit each instead of all 10 going to one person."

There is no intent to "distribute the absence of peace" - it is pure taking justice into one's own hands, pure and simple. Don't sugar coat it.  I don't fault them for that either - just say "we don't trust your 'official' police to do justice, so we are going to do it our way."

The problem is that justice by violence tends to escalate into the most effectively violent people being in control.  This is not a society for which I want to strive.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37030 on: May 28, 2020, 12:30:10 pm »

You already live in that society, and that is the fundamental flaw of your position. The silent violence of cops and capital occurs in every city on every day, and yet does not receive nearly such criticism. Only when the public stops taking the abuse they suffer in silence do the wagging fingers and the frantic accusations emerge, demanding good order and perfect conduct. The goal of such things is not justice or even critique, but the return to silence.

If the cops get to beat and murder with a smug smile on their faces, then we certainly get to riot. If the rich get to live fat off our stolen labor, then we certainly get to steal it back. Turnabout isn't just fair for that, it's merciful.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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No Gods, No Masters.

Doomblade187

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37031 on: May 28, 2020, 12:30:47 pm »

Rioting is itself a form of communication - it communicates discontent.

Also, most of the protesters are just doing exactly civil disobedience, like you prefer. I think it was one out of four seperate protests that was the riot. Four. And from what I've seen, all the photos of cops pepper spraying protesters are from the peaceful protest.
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In any case it would be a battle of critical thinking and I refuse to fight an unarmed individual.
One mustn't stare into the pathos, lest one become Pathos.

SalmonGod

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37032 on: May 28, 2020, 01:05:29 pm »

There's a serious difference between civil disobedience and rioting, though.

"Distribute the absence of peace" - that is so far outside my worldview I can't understand it.  My worldview calls that "violence".  You can't "distribute" violence, you can only conduct it.  You can't say "oh that was 10 units of violence, so we can spread it around so 10 people only get one unit each instead of all 10 going to one person."

There is no intent to "distribute the absence of peace" - it is pure taking justice into one's own hands, pure and simple. Don't sugar coat it.  I don't fault them for that either - just say "we don't trust your 'official' police to do justice, so we are going to do it our way."

The problem is that justice by violence tends to escalate into the most effectively violent people being in control.  This is not a society for which I want to strive.

And your perspective is exactly what riots are aimed at.  It's not about convincing you to care by pleading to your ethics (you did after all just call destruction of corporate property violence which is an incredible but common linguistic trick of false equivocation).  It's about forcing you to care because now it concerns you directly.  That's the point of distributing the absence of peace.  And the way you're talking about it right now just proves that it's effective.

It's about the majority of pearl-clutchers who when pressed will feel obligated to state that they find the murder of black people by police objectionable.  But that same majority will do nothing about it but shake their heads when it breaks national news.  Meanwhile, the number of black people unjustly murdered by police is orders of magnitude greater than the number of cases that make it to national news (black men have a 1 in 1000 chance of being murdered by police).  So they'll not have a second thought about being a Karen and calling police whenever a black person makes them feel nervous.  They will not take the issue into consideration when engaging with politics (ex. Klobuchar will make middle-class white women feel empowered and represented, and they won't give a shit that she fought tooth and nail to protect police against charges, including the officer who went on to kill Floyd).  And generally float about life blissfully and ignorantly entitled and privileged.

If all you do is tsk tsk, call it a shame, and move on when a blatant murder takes place fully captured on video and that's the fullest extent to which you are aware of the issue, then you are the type of person a riot is aimed at.  Because if the peace and order of your society is crumbling around you, then the situation now concerns you directly.  That bubble of entitlement and privilege gets popped, and you are forced to experience the reality that the rioters have already been living with.  You are forced to share and understand their lack of peace.  This is what MLK meant when he called riots the language of the unheard.

And yeah, many will respond by seeing the rioters as thugs who need to be put back in their place.  But others will be shocked into re-assessing the issue more honestly.  Or if the riots keep up, they will see that continuing to tolerate the oppression of these people isn't sustainable and begin to prefer that their grievances be addressed so they can stop being faced with riots all the time.  Either way, it forces a choice.  And when a people is faced with being regularly murdered by the status quo, forcing the broader public to pay attention and take a stance, even if many take a stance against them, may be preferable to continue suffering under the status quo forever.

Also, most of the protesters are just doing exactly civil disobedience, like you prefer. I think it was one out of four seperate protests that was the riot. Four. And from what I've seen, all the photos of cops pepper spraying protesters are from the peaceful protest.

Also this.  The rioting began only after police responded to peaceful protests with violence.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Iduno

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37033 on: May 28, 2020, 01:08:09 pm »

Hahaha that would delete like 90+% of twitter, probably most of social media period.
I see this as an absolute win.
Splinter social media in a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds

It has a value, but the damage it does is probably larger, so yeah.
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Bumber

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37034 on: May 28, 2020, 01:25:06 pm »

Yeah, even the arson.  Not indiscriminate, but it supports the function of a riot.  And the destruction in Minneapolis has not been indiscriminate.  I'm watching a 2 1/2 hour video of the scene near the 3rd precinct as the condo building burns down.  Minority owned business left pristine.

Presumably they employ minorities, though, and are a part of the local economy. Things are bad enough with businesses having to shut down due to COVID. Ultimately, it's just going to harm their own economic recovery.
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