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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 3591144 times)

hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37920 on: July 07, 2020, 05:54:54 pm »

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we have a rare opportunity here to banish all the right wing bullshit forever
That in particular won't happen
 It always pops up again.

Trump's pandemic management might make people reluctant to play with the alt right for a while, though...

Nah, that was quite clearly a Chinese attack on the US, disguised as a global pandemic by the China-controlled WHO.

Trump called it for what it is and is such a hyperdimensional genius he is now utilizing it to cull the US of undesirables by allowing it to spread via the BLM protests. George Floyd was a martyr to his country in that regard/Chauvin is a hero for sacrificing himself to the snowflake antifa mob to allow this to happen. (delete as appropriate)

Not wearing a mask is just doing your civic duty in that regard.
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Telgin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37921 on: July 07, 2020, 06:10:36 pm »

Nah, that was quite clearly a Chinese attack on the US, disguised as a global pandemic by the China-controlled WHO.

I wish I didn't know people who believed things like this.  Or that the national coin shortage is a ploy for the government to instate socialism by harvesting all of the coins.  Something about money can be burned, but coins got metal in them.

If I had a reset button I could push and try again, I'd have pushed it a long time ago.  Reset what?  The last year?  Election?  Humanity?  Take your pick.
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Max™

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37922 on: July 07, 2020, 06:10:54 pm »

Nevermind, I don't care.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 03:02:09 am by Max™ »
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37923 on: July 07, 2020, 06:17:35 pm »

Just so I understand, you're saying that electing Biden will result in doubling the amount of senators given to NY and CA, and thereby the Dems will undo all the Republican stuff?
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Telgin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37924 on: July 07, 2020, 06:18:18 pm »

So right now with Trump fucking all the things up like he does, he's putting new states in play electorally, he's endangering what were once safe senate seats, and we have the opportunity to undo the redistricting shit which Rove did in 2010.

Do we have any credible evidence this is true?  I've seen some polls that put Biden a fair bit ahead of Trump, but I saw too many of those saying Hillary was way ahead of him to believe polls anymore.  Maybe it's just me hearing all of the extremely conservative people around here who think Trump is the second coming of Jesus and has made no mistakes whatsoever, and anything that went wrong was liberal sabotage, but I'm not convinced yet that 2020 will be any different from 2016.
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kaijyuu

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37925 on: July 07, 2020, 06:20:39 pm »

2016 polls were fine (inasmuch as political polls are ever fine...); they're to 95% confidence after all, which will be wrong 5% of the time.

Maybe the republicans will roll a natural 20 again but I'm not betting on it.
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For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Max™

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37926 on: July 07, 2020, 06:31:30 pm »

Nevermind, I don't care.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 03:02:23 am by Max™ »
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37927 on: July 07, 2020, 06:38:08 pm »

No see, we have a president who has been utterly fucking up what any properly terrifying and capably evil fucker would have dreamed to have land in their lap. Guarantee Cheney would have been shitting kittens to see something like this rather than 9/11 because he had to play up 9/11 to excuse ridiculous overreach, while a global pandemic actually needs ridiculous overreach!
This is much less useful than 9/11. Even if Trump hadn't stoked the flames, people "well actually" denying that the pandemic is a big deal would have still happened, because it has little bombast. We haven't even gotten a front-page photograph of nurses stepping over the dead in a hospital hallway yet, this disaster has no more appeal than the other host of problems in America that kill people constantly. It even has less bombast than war dead, admittedly because the US government can't publish those photos without somewhat fucking themselves.

It now occurs to me that forcing the Bush administration to publish photos of war dead probably would have been a good strategy back in the day, might have boosted the anti-war movement, such as it was.

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So right now with Trump fucking all the things up like he does, he's putting new states in play electorally, he's endangering what were once safe senate seats, and we have the opportunity to undo the redistricting shit which Rove did in 2010.
So? You want to do that, but why should the Democrats want to do that? Gerrymandering didn't start in 2010, they had their chance and didn't do anything about it before. Breaking the fragile shield of not publicly exposing all the cheating the Republicans do in literally every election has been the direction of the DNC for a long time - whether they do this because they think it's impractical or because they want the Republicans to reciprocate for the Democrats' own corruption is up for debate, but the party stance on this is pretty clear.

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Right now the republicans are a minority party abusing structural advantages to remain in power, Biden is goddamn far from ideal but his coattails will help drag in enough leverage to completely undo the bullshit republicans have used for the last decade to fuck over everything.
Which is why Obama repealed the Patriot Act, punished the banks for destroying the global economy, brought the troops home, and was proactive about doing things that he could do without anyone else's approval like closing Gitmo. I am sure the most right-wing Democratic official who didn't get tossed out for doing a racism back in the good old days will repeat these achievements.

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More than that, it becomes a serious consideration to split new york and california once we have a bare minority in the senate, so we can pick up four new senators and start actually making progress on undoing all the damage McConnell and his cunts have done.
Don't you think it would be more plausible to admit territories as states, which at least is a Constitutionally valid action, rather than splitting states who's only legal precedent happened in wild card void of the actual Civil War? Also neither of these things will happen. Why the fuck would either of the most powerful state parties in the Democratic Party ever agree to give up everything they have for this plan which the Democratic Party has never advocated?

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Along with the new senators would come a redistribution of electoral votes and thus an end to the current reagan era republican party ever seeing power until it does something besides clinging desperately to racist white godbotherering males.
The modern GOP's very reason for existence is to ensure the corruption of the electoral system in their favor on every level possible. They'd give up everything else before letting this happen. They'd go to the military before accepting this outcome, not that they need to since this glorious election that's supposed to oust the GOP is happening under their rules.

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A republican party forced to compromise and work with the other side of the aisle, forced to broaden it's appeal, would be better for everyone, and if they want to bitch and moan and grumble instead of grow, they can sit in the fucking corner while the grown-ups fix all the damage they've done, I don't care.
As they say, Republicans fantasize about exterminating Democrats and Democrats fantasize about successfully compromising with Republicans.

I'm not sure what a post-Trump era looks like for America, but I'm pretty sure the DNC doesn't know what it looks like either, just as nobody knew what a post-Dubya era looked like. And we've retained the evils of the Bush era just fine because of that. Not to put too fine a point on it, but nothing will fundamentally change, nor can it really.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 06:41:16 pm by MetalSlimeHunt »
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Rolan7

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37928 on: July 07, 2020, 06:47:21 pm »

Just so I understand, you're saying that electing Biden will result in doubling the amount of senators given to NY and CA, and thereby the Dems will undo all the Republican stuff?
Downballot effects are important, getting Biden in office plus Trump being a drag means we actually have a likely flipping of the senate if it were held right now.
Yes, this is the most important thing.  We (I mean leftists) cannot get a good president in power now, but we can mitigate damage- But much more importantly we can make everything better across the country by voting for governors, representatives, senators, and especially local officials like mayors.

Look at how local governments have responded to Covid despite federal dismissal.  Downballot votes are vitally important.
Anybody think Trump is going to magically start doing everything right and unfuck everything between now and November?
Recent 538 podcast had me laughing then wondering at the idea that Trump could do a second-term turnaround and reach out to leftists.  It was a weird thought.  Dude has no loyalty at all, and is unironically "ironic chaos" personified as of 2016.  They were talking about him taking a female person of color as running made, specifically.  It seems unlikely yet I find myself unwilling to bet against it.  The guy supported a lot of democrats, he literally does not care about side besides "with/against him".

(I think it was this 538 cast.  They talk about Kanye too of course.)
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37929 on: July 07, 2020, 06:51:00 pm »

It's not that weird - Trump wouldn't be reaching out to leftists (lol Nate Zinc), he'd be doing "welfare for the white man" politics which isn't unprecedented and probably would be fairly popular. That was even part of the New Deal Coalition back in the day. Trump just isn't smart or brave enough to actually fully go against the RNC like that, though I think they probably would cave if he did.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 06:52:47 pm by MetalSlimeHunt »
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
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WealthyRadish

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37930 on: July 07, 2020, 07:47:25 pm »

2016 polls were fine (inasmuch as political polls are ever fine...); they're to 95% confidence after all, which will be wrong 5% of the time.

Maybe the republicans will roll a natural 20 again but I'm not betting on it.

Agreed, reminds me of the Dickens quote:

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It was too much the way… to talk of this terrible Election as if it were the only harvest ever known under the skies that had not been sown — as if nothing had ever been done, or omitted to be done, that had led to it — as if observers of the wretched millions in America, and of the misused and perverted resources that should have made them prosperous, had not seen it inevitably coming, years before, and had not in plain terms recorded what they saw; or rather, that is what I would say if the baseball guy four years ago hadn't given us 95% odds, so really I think they just got unlucky, these things happen you know and no change in strategy is required or desirable
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misko27

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37931 on: July 07, 2020, 08:04:02 pm »

Now on the other hand there's an element you have all mostly forgotten.

In 2008 Obama became President. But on 2010 the Tea Party rose to power, and 2010 was intrinsically a more valuable year to take office. Why? Redistricting. With Republican domination of state and local offices they had the opportunity to lock in their victories through the overwhelming power of gerrymandering, and with pen and Census results in hand that's exactly what they did. The impact that had on the course of events in the last decade is indescribable.

While I have no doubt that the Census will be every imaginable version of a clusterfuck given current circumstances, at the very least, remember that all of those oft-ignored local elections will be very important this year.
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Bumber

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37932 on: July 07, 2020, 10:25:21 pm »

Do we have any credible evidence this is true?  I've seen some polls that put Biden a fair bit ahead of Trump, but I saw too many of those saying Hillary was way ahead of him to believe polls anymore.  Maybe it's just me hearing all of the extremely conservative people around here who think Trump is the second coming of Jesus and has made no mistakes whatsoever, and anything that went wrong was liberal sabotage, but I'm not convinced yet that 2020 will be any different from 2016.

From what I heard, some of the recent polls are even less representative of Republican voters than the 2016 ones. I doubt many have switched parties, even given Trump. Trump's approval rating is still above where it was before he got elected, despite current events.
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feelotraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37933 on: July 08, 2020, 01:07:41 am »

Not to put too fine a point on it, but nothing will fundamentally change, nor can it really.

Absolutely, elections are just another Spectacle.

("Run Comrade, the Old World is behind You.")
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37934 on: July 08, 2020, 03:16:09 am »

The interesting thing about Trump buying up all the remdesivir is that he splashed out just enough to have all of the supply for the next 3 months. Literally just enough to last them until the election.

So while some people have thought this was USA First bravado grandstanding it might be even more cynical than that, since the stuff reduces symptoms in people already hospitalized with the disease. So Trump's unhinged thinking here might well be that if the stuff cuts down on hospital time and they have enough for until the election then they can somehow get everyone out of hospital in time for November 6th. Trump might loudly splash the medicine around and if people who were sick still don't vote for him after that he'll label them ungrateful traitors since they didn't support him despite him being the medicine-man. I wouldn't put it past him that he'd retaliate against states that don't vote for him in November either, or if he hands the stuff out extremely selectively on a state by state basis.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 03:20:26 am by Reelya »
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