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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 3533632 times)

Loud Whispers

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42465 on: December 02, 2020, 03:14:48 pm »

I wish I lived in more enlightened times.

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Funnily enough in Victoria II, you also get the comet sighted event. But because you live in enlightened times, it just gives you research points

MrRoboto75

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42466 on: December 02, 2020, 03:37:09 pm »

Funnily enough in Victoria II, you also get the comet sighted event. But because you live in enlightened times, it just gives you research points

And in Stellaris, with a minor effect based on what ethics your civ runs on.  The science based ones being "yeah whatever".
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MorleyDev

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42467 on: December 02, 2020, 03:47:39 pm »

Also, why do we care to "benefit businesses long-term" - don't we want to benefit all of society, not just businesses?

What's good for society is good for business. The inverse isn't always true, but in the long-term businesses do benefit from access to a stable, healthy and well-educated workforce. Gender equality means more workers and more consumers for your products, racial equality means more workers and more consumers for your products, support for transgender means etc.

It's all well and good to talk about the moral imperative for these things, I'm on board with that, but that's just preaching to the converted. The morality of support for the unemployed, preventing climate change, gender/racial equality, free education, free healthcare, is all self-evident to people who agree with it, and laughable to those who don't, and you'll never win an argument on the morals alone.

You need to tie it to a pitch long-term success to sell it to the unconvinced. After a thing is normalised it'll be seen as moral, but you can't get it normalised by arguing it's moral. Getting it in and then normalised is how you change the culture.

Those sound good - and I like the goals.  But "tax the right to give free education" doesn't give you free education - it gives you "education funded by the rich." Without cultural changes to make the rich happy to do this, it's likely going to breed resentment and class-divide issues.

Which then leads to this, the wealthy benefit from access to a well-educated workforce. The industrial revolution was driven in-part by the sudden access to a basically educated workforce, and it's still true for businesses that the better educated your workforce and consumers the more products can be developed and consumed. Can't include instruction magazines to people who can't read, can't sell a mobile phone to people with no IT skills. There's no upper limit on this, the more educated a person is the wider a pool of potential products they can consume. The more educated an employee is, the wider a range of tools they can wield. There may need to be a friendly reminder of this fact every now and then.

Also - "allow for a more agile workforce capable of transitioning between careers..." sounds like a great goal, but what does that mean? What would this look like? Does it mean UBI so you can just quit your job and go to school and learn something else? Should society fund "career students"? These are the questions that are less obvious to address.  Or do you just say "yeah, there are enough people that aren't just going to live off UBI that it will all work, so we can tolerate the portion of people who do just sit there without producing anything."

For that's what ultimate communism says - that the portion of society that does produce, does it efficiently enough that it can support the "non productive" (injured, young, those that choose to do nothing) in a resource-efficient manner, in a way that doesn't collapse due to disrepair.

Yes on both accounts. Allow people who want to go back to education to do so free of charge, maybe a limit on how often (like you can't go back for free for 5 years or something) but I find that unlikely to be needed. It's already true that people who aren't trying to learn get kicked off their course, and the people who are trying are unlikely to just keep at that indefinitely instead of moving into a career around their topic of study.

Offer financial incentives for businesses to encourage them to hire and train rather than always look for prior experience (which again, makes future efforts to find those with prior experience easier). I'm fine with some gentle pressure for employment for those capable of working until we hit that point of more job seekers than job positions, but morally it seems odd that there are people who would rather the bottom 5% who need support not get it than the top 5% who do not need support do get it. The balance will never be perfect, I'd rather overshoot the coverage than undershoot.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 04:39:03 pm by MorleyDev »
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feelotraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42468 on: December 02, 2020, 04:04:15 pm »

Funnily enough in Victoria II, you also get the comet sighted event. But because you live in enlightened times, it just gives you research points

And in Stellaris, with a minor effect based on what ethics your civ runs on.  The science based ones being "yeah whatever".

Meh, at least they could give us some 'Green Vapours' to usher in the New World (from one Wells [sic] to another...).
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42469 on: December 02, 2020, 05:52:03 pm »

So, the latest Trump (re?)Tweet has the following claim:
Quote
In today's update, Chairwoman @kelliwardaz announces the findings from our investigation of 100 duplicate ballots, in which TWO votes were discovered to have been altered and removed from President @realDonaldTrump's total.

...which to me does not say "Trump should have won", but instead points towards Trump having even fewer votes if fully corrected.

(Having identified duplicated votes, something Trump encouraged his supporters to do to 'test' the system, just 1/50th had been identified and corrected, both Trumpite. So of the (low quantity) of all possible duplicates, the chances are that further adjustments towards accuracy will again 'favour' the Trump camp by removing even more erroneous/duplicitous duplicates from the totals.)

Or maybe they just aren't using words I understand (rather than using words the know the 'base' will gleefully misunderstand).


Oh, and if you chose the numbers 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 in the South African lottery, congraulations! You (and 19 others) just won (a 20th-share of) the Powerball winnings! And yet more people who don't understand statistics say this is "impossible" and must be a 'fix'. Just like some armchair-/flipchart-staticians continue to try to apply to various US vote counts (but only ones that they didn't win).
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delphonso

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42470 on: December 02, 2020, 07:52:27 pm »

Has anyone been on Parlor?

Naturegirl1999

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42471 on: December 02, 2020, 07:57:00 pm »

A parlor is a type of room, though in your case it is titled, so likely no
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42472 on: December 02, 2020, 08:43:10 pm »

Probably means Parler, which is basically twitter for people that got their whackjob ass banned from twitter (or want to be around folks that did), near as I've noticed. Folks running it have leaned into cultivating a user base that leans heavily conservative, more or less.
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LordBaal

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42473 on: December 02, 2020, 08:49:22 pm »

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MaxTheFox

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42474 on: December 02, 2020, 09:47:17 pm »

Would you like to debate, McTraveller? You seem like a nice person to debate with.

And, I think that, by the left, you may be referring to Authoritarian Leftists. I'm an Anarchist-Communist, which basically means I oppose all structures that unneccessarily restrict the rights and freedoms of the individual, combined with the communist beliefs of worker-owned means of production and replacement of money with people assisting each other. There are a lot of other leftists who believe things like this, such as Syndicalists, Social Democrats and some Individualist Anarchists.
I consider myself a social democrat (bordering on democratic socialist) with technocratic elements. Run society based on science and rationality, and slowly abolish capitalism to both minimize chaos and destruction in the wake of a revolution, and allow people to adapt better.

I don't fully agree with anarchism but you guys have a point.

Good luck on slowly reforming away capitalism as the oceans of the world start boiling over and equatorial regions that house billions of people are turned into inhospitable wastelands. And all the warm fuzzy liberal democracies where for now at least there's even a scintilla of political will for social democratic programs will morph into fascist fortresses (already happening) to keep out all the masses of poor brown people fleeing heat waves that cook your internal organs if you're outside. The only thing left to do is industrial sabotage I dunno write to your congressperson I guess.
Nice try, but "slowly" is relative. Also, note that I would immediately implement ecological restrictions and push some of Russia's neighboring minor nations to do the same. This should stave off what you described for long enough.
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42475 on: December 02, 2020, 10:22:48 pm »

The first trick is how to beat Putin without getting killed or disappeared
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MaxTheFox

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42476 on: December 02, 2020, 11:50:30 pm »

The first trick is how to beat Putin without getting killed or disappeared
Let's be honest I have no chance. Better to simply not make too much noise then move to another country where I won't be bothered.
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Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless. What will you do on the day of reckoning, when disaster comes from afar?

LordBaal

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42477 on: December 03, 2020, 06:29:29 am »

I know what's to live on that fear. Don't worry however, this forums are as safe as safe can be. It seems Dwarf Fortress is as popular as a successful game can be while being also unpopular or insignificant or something. Once it's out in Steam maybe the forums will get an inrush of escaped lunatics, maybe then it could attract the attention of the internet thought police of our countries.
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

MorleyDev

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42478 on: December 03, 2020, 07:01:34 am »

Ehhh, until the forum is on HTTPS an ISP could pick up what's posted via automated checks of all traffic. HTTPs adds extra protection against such a man-in-the-middle attack, revealing only DNS/IP information and encrypting the request/response information. Really in 2020 there isn't a good excuse for not being on HTTPs, it's not like you even have to pay for certificates anymore.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 07:07:22 am by MorleyDev »
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LordBaal

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42479 on: December 03, 2020, 07:17:43 am »

Thing is, this forum does not really register a lot, there are sites here forbiden or heavily monitored (people here have gone to jail or worsts for posting stuff online). Hell, even in some internet "blackouts" this forum was still accesable, which means they still dont see a bunch of nerds managing a bunch seemingly random pixels a threat or a gathering place for uprisings. I bet they dont even know this place exists.
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!
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