Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 2890 2891 [2892] 2893 2894 ... 3511

Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 3534552 times)

LordBaal

  • Bay Watcher
  • System Lord and Hanslanda lees evil twin.
    • View Profile
Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #43365 on: January 16, 2021, 10:28:18 am »

Sure, Lord Baal and Co. for example... give your money to me arr hemm, to them... I'm.. . we, they are building a.... ahhhem, an ultimate death ray that will be capable of... umm dunno, killing entropy? yeah, sure, let's go with that. Just remember, cash only, preferably in bags marked with a dollar sign.
Logged
I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

MorleyDev

  • Bay Watcher
  • "It is not enough for it to just work."
    • View Profile
    • MorleyDev
« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 10:02:18 pm by MorleyDev »
Logged

misko27

  • Bay Watcher
  • Lawful Neutral; Prophet of Pestilence
    • View Profile
Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #43367 on: January 16, 2021, 11:12:45 am »

I’ve not heard of the term “pork barrel” money before, what is meant by that?

Let's say you and I are both congresscritters.  You want to expand spending for social security, but you need other congresscritters to vote for your bill.  You come to me, but I don't particularly care about social security, but I might really care about education.  I tell you I might vote for your bill, but only if you put in something extra into the fine print about education.

The bill is obstensively still about social security, but if passed also now does something about education, which makes me happy.

Its a form of compromise but often obfuscates what bills are really about to the public, and who/why people support certain bills.  To the public I might be against social security, but I voted yes on this social security bill, because hidden away was really what I wanted.
I would like to emphasize that as Pork Barrel is traditionally used, it refers to... well again, let us take an example as, oh say, Joe Manchin of West Virginia. Joe Manchin is a Democratic Senator representing a Deep Red state, where Trump won every single county in 2016 and had his largest voting share of any state, at +41.7% in 2016 (down to a mere +38.9% in 2020). There is a debate over a bill in the Senate on the issue of, let us say Social Security as in the example above. Manchin says nay, because Socialism and it puts his voters into a frothing rage.

And so to get Manchin on the side of the bill, it is amended to also include funding for projects in West Virginia; perhaps a bridge, perhaps repairing a highway or other public works project; a special Defense contract of some kind like for building planes perhaps, or agricultural subsidies. This pleases Manchin, and when he goes home he will bring news of the many benefits he was able to bring to West Virginia that he could only get by being a Democratic Senator and not a Republican, and this gives him cover to vote for something West Virginians might otherwise vote him out over. Other popular examples are convincing members of certain house or senate committees (without which a bill cannot advance to the floor) through pork barrel; this is somewhat more common as individual votes are more frequently relevant there.

The issue is, of course, that it means taxpayers fund something for the benefit of one state (or district) and not on the basis of whether they really need it, but instead on the basis of political expediency.  It is an example of the maxim that "All politics are local" in that whatever a senator or representative may believe, they are ultimately elected by a specific locale and thus beholden to the interests of that place over any ideological ones.
Logged
The Age of Man is over. It is the Fire's turn now

Lord Shonus

  • Bay Watcher
  • Angle of Death
    • View Profile
Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #43368 on: January 16, 2021, 11:56:03 am »

Oh I seen. But how come an non gummit org get to set standards for things like that? Is not that some government branch responsibility?

The NRA was founded in the late 1800s, shortly after out Civil War. The original pirpose was imprpving the general marksmanship of US militia due to a perception that Union marskmanship in the war was subpar. In doing so, they wound up codifying a ton of best practices before anybody else saw a real need (note that there was a major revolution in firearms technology at the time). By the tine governments started to see the need for codified regulations, they found that wholesale adoption of the NRA standard was not only easier but better than what they'd come up with. Even today, there's quite a few "to NRA standards" written into legal codes.
Logged
On Giant In the Playground and Something Awful I am Gnoman.
Man, ninja'd by a potentially inebriated Lord Shonus. I was gonna say to burn it.

Starver

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #43369 on: January 16, 2021, 01:16:27 pm »

Sure, Lord Baal and Co. for example...
I hear the Society for Totally Awesome and Radically Vital Expensive Research needs funding...
Logged

Dostoevsky

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #43370 on: January 16, 2021, 02:20:03 pm »

Regarding pork:

The sanitized name for this is "earmarks," by the by - so one is looking for people who like the practice, look for that term.

Also worth keeping in mind that usually pretty much every state does have local infrastructure or other needs, and a good portion of the time the money is actually used usefully. That is definitely not 100% of the time, however, and it was a few particularly egregious examples (e.g. the Bridge to Nowhere) that led to the practice getting officially curtailed in the US Congress. It still happens, just in more awkward ways that some argue are even less efficient.

Regarding NRA, 501(c)(4) organizations are currently a murky grey area of law heavily abused by all sorts of interests, unfortunately. When the IRS tried to crack down on it / clarify the limits during the Obama administration the pushback was pretty universal - even before the whole 'targeting' scandal (a separate track of their efforts) came out. So NRA's certainly not alone on this, but there's also the angles of them being one of the most powerful lobby groups on the hill and having lots of rather conspicuous corruption.
Logged

Bumber

  • Bay Watcher
  • REMOVE KOBOLD
    • View Profile
Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #43371 on: January 16, 2021, 06:36:10 pm »

Liberal activist arrested for participating in and encouraging the Capitol Hill riot.

Spoiler: That face be crazy (click to show/hide)

Edit: As per MSH's post below, he might actually be right-wing.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 07:28:59 pm by Bumber »
Logged
Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

hector13

  • Bay Watcher
  • It’s shite being Scottish
    • View Profile
Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #43372 on: January 16, 2021, 06:42:41 pm »

That doesn’t say why he’s getting a felony charge.
Logged
Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

Bumber

  • Bay Watcher
  • REMOVE KOBOLD
    • View Profile
Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #43373 on: January 16, 2021, 06:43:21 pm »

That doesn’t say why he’s getting a felony charge.

Quote
one felony count of interfering with law enforcement
Logged
Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

MetalSlimeHunt

  • Bay Watcher
  • Gerrymander Commander
    • View Profile
Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #43374 on: January 16, 2021, 06:45:55 pm »

Logged
Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

Starver

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #43375 on: January 16, 2021, 07:10:53 pm »

My very first thought. But, you know, to have said "He's probably not a Lib pretending to be Alt-Right, but an Alt-Right pretending to be a Lib" without any information ould have been pure displacement, ok?

(But it shows, once again, the "accuse the opposition of that which you are guilty" MO we see. Yes, there are likely a non-zero number of left->right 'infiltrators', but again and again we see left<-right ones. Well, the ones that let their cover slip. Maybe the natural-right are just bad at being lefty, but the natural-left are amazing at being rightist?)


Logged

MorleyDev

  • Bay Watcher
  • "It is not enough for it to just work."
    • View Profile
    • MorleyDev
Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #43376 on: January 16, 2021, 09:46:18 pm »

Considering some of the insane conspiracy theories in Alt-Right space, I can't help but imagine them walking up to the lefties and being all "What is up my fellow satanists? Shall we proceed to the basement of the local Pizzaria and sacrifice a child to our dark god molok?" just to be met with confused looks.
Logged

Cthulhu

  • Bay Watcher
  • A squid
    • View Profile
Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #43377 on: January 17, 2021, 01:28:20 am »

Not everybody's that dumb.  Bad idea to rely on assuming the people who wish you harm will commit unforced errors.
Logged
Shoes...

thompson

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #43378 on: January 17, 2021, 03:05:43 am »

My very first thought. But, you know, to have said "He's probably not a Lib pretending to be Alt-Right, but an Alt-Right pretending to be a Lib" without any information ould have been pure displacement, ok?

(But it shows, once again, the "accuse the opposition of that which you are guilty" MO we see. Yes, there are likely a non-zero number of left->right 'infiltrators', but again and again we see left<-right ones. Well, the ones that let their cover slip. Maybe the natural-right are just bad at being lefty, but the natural-left are amazing at being rightist?)

The conservative press are still living in the Cold War where the Soviets channeled significant resources into left-wing subversion/infiltration. They haven’t yet figured out that ended 30 years ago and for the last two decades Putin’s been playing the same game on the right. Ok, I know, they’ve always played both sides, and their influence was overstated much of the time, but for all practical purposes the effort has shifted from left to right.

Russia’s investment is much smaller than the grass-roots movements themselves, but they provide a framework of competent, results-orientated leadership and training in subversive tactics, etc, which is something the lunatic fringe usually lacks. How much impact this all has in the real world is hard to say, but given Russia is backing far-right groups just about everywhere I assume they see it as an effective use of resources.
Logged

Rolan7

  • Bay Watcher
  • [GUE'VESA][BONECARN]
    • View Profile
Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #43379 on: January 17, 2021, 10:54:49 pm »

Things have always been been shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfkhS1R8A2Q
Logged
She/they
No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.
Pages: 1 ... 2890 2891 [2892] 2893 2894 ... 3511