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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 3534625 times)

Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46290 on: September 22, 2021, 04:21:12 pm »

... which part are you lolwating over?
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Gentlefish

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46291 on: September 22, 2021, 04:36:37 pm »

I mean, if that should be recognized we should also recognize the obvious "remove kebab" reference (referring to an anti-mulsim propaganda video and used by the alt-right and neo-nazis as a meme to advocate "religious cleansing") in their personal text.

lolwat

Yeah it's wack. I thought it was just a "haha funny" thing but that's just not the case anymore.

Random_Dragon

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46292 on: September 22, 2021, 04:55:31 pm »

Eh, the "remove kobold" bit is...PROBABLY a joke, and pretty much a given for the DF community. But you can never tell with that sort of people.
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"Hey idiots, someone hacked my account to call you all idiots! Wasn't me you idiots!" seems to stretch credulity a bit.

Gentlefish

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46293 on: September 22, 2021, 05:04:12 pm »

Eh, the "remove kobold" bit is...PROBABLY a joke, and pretty much a given for the DF community. But you can never tell with that sort of people.
Yeah I'm only really mentioning it considering the context of their posts in this thread. Suffice to say, I am... Not impressed.

Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46294 on: September 22, 2021, 05:52:39 pm »

I still haven't figured out exactly how the treasury / debt limit thing is supposed to be a reasonable system.  Sovereign debt and government payments is a baffling social construct not constrained by any kind of physical reality.

My example is always the naive confusion between dollar value and actual wealth; headlines and articles say things like "oh a US default will erase $15 trillion from household wealth" which is incorrect; the instant the book value of all those stocks and bonds changes by $15T, the actual physical goods in the country, and the physical capability of the population to create new goods and perform services, did not change.

If our society is collectively so stupid that we just decide to quit working because a number changes in a computer somewhere... well then I suppose we deserve what we get.

A certain amount of government debt is healthy, just as a certain amount of personal debt is financially healthy. It is great for financing things like wars, infrastructure projects, military procrument batches, emergency relief and other short-term expenses. Long-term expenses should be paid for by base-level taxation. Note that this is not a small-government/big-government or a liberal/conservative thing - it is equally applicable for a "The only legitimate permanent government expense is a protective fleet and just enough army to serve as a skeleton for the militia" viewpoint as it is for a "Universal income, health care, and higher education" one. If debt becomes too high, it becomes parasitic, so there is a cap on how much the government can borrow.

There are two huge issues with the system. First, the limit is factored in as an absolute figure, not a percentage of GDP or net Federal income. The second critical problem is that taxes aren't high enough to pay for what most conservatives want, let alone the expanded safety nets and social programs that liberals want or the wealth redistribution programs pushed by the further left. This could be improved by greater efficiency (the amount the US government pays into healthcare is an embarrassment for the result, to the point where a subsidized system very well might save money), but you aren't going to efficiency away a "spend twice what you earn" system. Raising taxes (and thus getting a larger part of the available tax pool) and reducing outsourcing of jobs and banking (thus increasing the possible tax pool) is the only real way to solve the budget problem long-term even if you want a small government.
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delphonso

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46295 on: September 22, 2021, 06:07:54 pm »

Eh, the "remove kobold" bit is...PROBABLY a joke, and pretty much a given for the DF community. But you can never tell with that sort of people.
Yeah I'm only really mentioning it considering the context of their posts in this thread. Suffice to say, I am... Not impressed.

In before "just a joke" or denying white supremacist memes exist.

Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46296 on: September 22, 2021, 06:18:16 pm »

Also--pretty sure "remove kebab" is specifically an anti-turkish thing, comes up a lot in gaming memes. But I could be wrong.
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Random_Dragon

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46297 on: September 22, 2021, 06:41:57 pm »

If I recall it originated in Serbia, or at least first became a meme from there. Because the Balkans are a hot mess as far as ethnic tensions go.
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wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46298 on: September 22, 2021, 11:56:56 pm »

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George_Chickens

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46299 on: September 23, 2021, 01:31:17 am »

If I recall it originated in Serbia, or at least first became a meme from there. Because the Balkans are a hot mess as far as ethnic tensions go.
It started out as a video of Yugoslav war propaganda that was the perfect storm of bizarre and bad music, what with the funny accordians and thousand yard stares. The 'remove kebab' aspect of it actually came from a mockery of extremist Serbian nationalism in a copypasta that gets spread around.
Quote
you are worst turk. you are the turk idiot you are the turk smell. return to croatioa. to our croatia cousins you may come our contry. you may live in the zoo….ahahahaha ,bosnia we will never forgeve you. cetnik rascal FUck but fuck asshole turk stink bosnia sqhipere shqipare..turk genocide best day of my life. take a bath of dead turk..ahahahahahBOSNIA WE WILL GET YOU!! do not forget ww2 .albiania we kill the king , albania return to your precious mongolia….hahahahaha idiot turk and bosnian smell so bad..wow i can smell it. REMOVE KEBAB FROM THE PREMISES. you will get caught. russia+usa+croatia+slovak=kill bosnia…you will ww2/ tupac alive in serbia, tupac making album of serbia . fast rap tupac serbia. we are rich and have gold now hahahaha ha because of tupac… you are ppoor stink turk… you live in a hovel hahahaha, you live in a yurt

Most references to it are references to this and the funny original video, not how it's used and abused by neo-nazism. The way he's using it is about as nazism related as going "FEGELEIN! FEGELEIN! FEGELEIN!".
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martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46300 on: September 23, 2021, 01:43:00 am »

... a certain amount of personal debt is financially healthy.

Is it? Over here (and in most parts of Europe), personal debt is discouraged and even frowned upon. "don't spend what you don't have". We dutch are advised by our government to have personal savings around 4000 euros at all times, to be able to afford unexpected expenditures such as broken washing machines, a new bicycle, and such.

The personal debt thing (and everyone having credit cards) are completely alien and strange US things. Almost no one, except the super rich and the super dumb have a credit card over here.

EDIT: Okay, except for mortgages. Mortgages for your own home are encouraged, and even provide tax benefits. But that's only for people wealthy enough to buy a house in the first place.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 01:45:39 am by martinuzz »
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Rolan7

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46301 on: September 23, 2021, 01:51:56 am »

If I recall it originated in Serbia, or at least first became a meme from there. Because the Balkans are a hot mess as far as ethnic tensions go.
It started out as a video of Yugoslav war propaganda that was the perfect storm of bizarre and bad music, what with the funny accordians and thousand yard stares. The 'remove kebab' aspect of it actually came from a mockery of extremist Serbian nationalism in a copypasta that gets spread around.
Quote
you are worst turk. you are the turk idiot you are the turk smell. return to croatioa. to our croatia cousins you may come our contry. you may live in the zoo….ahahahaha ,bosnia we will never forgeve you. cetnik rascal FUck but fuck asshole turk stink bosnia sqhipere shqipare..turk genocide best day of my life. take a bath of dead turk..ahahahahahBOSNIA WE WILL GET YOU!! do not forget ww2 .albiania we kill the king , albania return to your precious mongolia….hahahahaha idiot turk and bosnian smell so bad..wow i can smell it. REMOVE KEBAB FROM THE PREMISES. you will get caught. russia+usa+croatia+slovak=kill bosnia…you will ww2/ tupac alive in serbia, tupac making album of serbia . fast rap tupac serbia. we are rich and have gold now hahahaha ha because of tupac… you are ppoor stink turk… you live in a hovel hahahaha, you live in a yurt

Most references to it are references to this and the funny original video, not how it's used and abused by neo-nazism. The way he's using it is about as nazism related as going "FEGELEIN! FEGELEIN! FEGELEIN!".
Thanks for spelling that out!  It's about what I thought, but I barely remembered it's origins at all.  Like sure, it COULD definitely be a dogwhistle, but IMO it dogwhistles DF more than, like, anti-turkism.

I could be wrong.  I'm certainly going to avoid using the stale meme that originally targeted an ethnic group.  I'm pretty sure I've used it in the past, without meaning to perpetuate a racist message.

Some dogwhistles are sneaky that way, particularly in my ex friend group.  They keep saying weird stuff and you play off it but then it turns out you're echo'ing some fash shit.  It happens.

Anyway I think Bumber has some awful takes about both-sidesism (and Covid) but I'm not seeing a fascist.  And I've known some neo-fascists.  What I hope is that Bumber is just repeating some common "Conservative" (actually Trump-adjacent) talking points, and that we've addressed the obvious problems with them.

Hmph.  I just had some nostalgia for my grandfathers' conservatism.  But I'm white, and was cis and straight AFAIK, so I guess that was just a different time.  And even then I went hard on Liberal social welfare.
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Rolan7

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46302 on: September 23, 2021, 01:54:13 am »

... a certain amount of personal debt is financially healthy.

Is it? Over here (and in most parts of Europe), personal debt is discouraged and even frowned upon. "don't spend what you don't have". We dutch are advised by our government to have personal savings around 4000 euros at all times, to be able to afford unexpected expenditures such as broken washing machines, a new bicycle, and such.

The personal debt thing (and everyone having credit cards) are completely alien and strange US things. Almost no one, except the super rich and the super dumb have a credit card over here.

EDIT: Okay, except for mortgages. Mortgages for your own home are encouraged, and even provide tax benefits. But that's only for people wealthy enough to buy a house in the first place.
It's a capitalism-as-faith thing probably?  You have to spend money to make money, which means middle class people should constantly be balancing debt against profitable assets like houses they're flipping.

You can borrow money and *probably* make a profit on it.  what could go wrong
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Random_Dragon

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46303 on: September 23, 2021, 02:14:16 am »

Credit scores are pretty fucky if I recall, yeah. Paying off an old debt for good can lower your credit score for example, so it seems a bit geared towards incentivizing being in debt but not defaulting on payments.
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wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46304 on: September 23, 2021, 02:28:01 am »

It's the whole problem with metrics based decision making.

Without a recurring source of data (such as making a payment, which only happens when there is a need to make a payment, such as with a debt)-- there is a singularity in the metrics based decision schema.  This leads to prioritization of individuals who meet the metrics collection requirements-- eg, people who have recurring payments, and are thus, likely to be in debt.

This then leads to a cycle where already having a debt is considered essential, to being able to go into debt.

(EG, you are turned down on your attempt to finance a vehicle, because your credit score is too low, because you have no debts and thus have bad metrics.)


Sometimes I think our economy is a miracle it works at all, given these clearly infantile situations that seem to be baked in.
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