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Clausewitz games (EU-likes)

4 (80%)

Anything made by Paradox (also Legion, Diplomacy etc.)

0 (0%)

The two main universes (EU and Ardania)

0 (0%)

Anything Paradox ever touched (Svea Rike through Tyranny)

0 (0%)

It's that thing where that barber shaves people no one will shave, innit?

1 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 5

Voting closed: February 10, 2017, 11:49:11 pm

[scriver]

Oh, I bought it back when  the Chinese New yesrs dale offered a discount-on-any-gsme discount

[Persus13]

It's boring as hell. Doubled-down on map painting and left very little else. Only potential is with modding it to death and back to add some actual content.

So, EU Rome again? Or worse?

[Wiles]

I am just learning the game but I am enjoying it so far. I feel like I am having more fun with it than I did with EU:IV on launch.

[ZeroGravitas]

I was in the beta.

Now that the NDA is over, I do have a few words.




It's boring as hell. Doubled-down on map painting and left very little else. Only potential is with modding it to death and back to add some actual content.

all paradox does now is release a Minimum Viable Product. if you buy their games at release you can expect that you're not buying anything near what most people would call a "full" game.

you can gamble on whether the DLC will be good or bad, but it's just not on the level of Warhammer or Civ where you can expect you're getting real game at release. you're not.

[Teneb]

I was in the beta.

Now that the NDA is over, I do have a few words.




It's boring as hell. Doubled-down on map painting and left very little else. Only potential is with modding it to death and back to add some actual content.

all paradox does now is release a Minimum Viable Product. if you buy their games at release you can expect that you're not buying anything near what most people would call a "full" game.

you can gamble on whether the DLC will be good or bad, but it's just not on the level of Warhammer or Civ where you can expect you're getting real game at release. you're not.

* Teneb remembers how CK2 was pretty full for what it was when it released

* Teneb wishes the trend would've continued

[Malus]

~5 hours in: it's promising. Needs work, like literally every PDS game at launch, but it could definitely be great. Eventually.

It feels like a step backwards in some ways -- the map is very pretty, but the performance is awful (on a 7700k/1080ti). The UI is, if not ugly, at least unpolished: text overruns its columns and frequently overlaps. These are kind of minor complaints and I'm sure they'll be addressed in the first couple of patches. There are some great improvements, like being able to automate armies, which is a godsend for minor wars (who needs vassal swarms when you can just set a few legions to "independent action" and let them do their jobs?) and I hope it's a feature in every Clausewitz game going forward. The dynamic portraits are going to be awesome if/when PDS makes CK3. (And a CK map with the density of Imperator would be really amazing.)

It's definitely a map painter and even more focused on that than EU4. There is literally nothing to do during peacetime except click through and promote/assimilate pops (which is already unmanageable with 500 or so cities) but I'm hopeful this will be addressed with expansions. CK2 was also pretty barebones at launch (seriously, go watch some 1.0 Let's Plays) and EU4 only had content because it contained everything from EU3 + its expansions; Imperator seems to have borrowed only the ideas from EU: Rome and pretty much implemented everything from scratch. I guess the question is how long it'll take them to churn out improvements.

Most of all, what I want to see, is more *mechanics*. Flavor events are neat, new laws are kind of whatever, but the best CK expansions were the ones that added new dimensions of interaction, like Conclave and Way of Life. Condottiere from EU4 were also very fun. I'd like to see the Cursus Honorum implemented so you can't go making a 16 year old governor/general. "Make peacetime interesting" is also kind of important, because right now there's not much to do while you're, say, waiting for your manpower to tick back up. I have no idea how they'll fit that into the game design though.

[Cruxador]

the best CK expansions were the ones that added new dimensions of interaction, like Conclave and Way of Life.

u wot

Those are two of the worst expansions in the game. Way of Life just adds some events and bundles them (and existing events) with a swappable bonus you can pick. And it swapped a perfectly serviceable education system that was reasonably accurate to the history for a micromanagement mess. Conclave theoretically adds new features but it basically just boils down to sometimes needing to bribe your government or appoint sycophants to get shit done. It's barely worth its part in the game abandoning the idea that respecting the rights of your vassals is a legitimate governance choice. How can these even remotely compare to DLC like Holy Fury, Old Gods, or Sons of Abraham that added many new mechanics and new play options without making the game worse in any way?

[CABL]

Well, I wasn't going to buy Imperator: Rome at the launch anyway, so thanks for a small mechanics review. Honestly though, I think it has some potential for expanding peacetime mechanics, unlike EU4 where the devs only add bullshit penalties to harm the player from growing too big.

[Malus]

Alright, I had to go to the wiki page to actually figure out which expansions added what. I buy them all on release and usually only put in serious time after a couple of interesting ones have stacked up. I thought Way of Life added more and for some reason I thought the Cardinal system was a vanilla feature. That said, the seduction and intrigue focuses are exactly what I mean when I say 'adding more dimensions of interaction'; and I'll stand by Conclave for making it much more interesting to play as a vassal. I wouldn't say Conclave and WoL were executed perfectly, but from a thematic standpoint, they're my favorites (alongside Monks & Mystics, which I somehow completely forgot existed; societies and the secret religious cults add more layers of gameplay beyond just the realm you're in, even if the actual content is thin). More ways to interact with existing mechanics vs. just more random flavor.

I was more trying to draw a comparison between, say, Horse Lords or Rajas of India, which are neat if you want to play in those parts of the map but otherwise don't actually add anything and if you aren't specifically pursuing that content, you probably won't interact with any Horse Lords/RoI features at all. Meanwhile, Conclave and WoL add more tools to your toolbox in a very concrete way. Same with Holy Fury, though sway/antagonize is something that probably should've been a base game feature.

[scriver]

the best CK expansions were the ones that added new dimensions of interaction, like Conclave and Way of Life.

u wot

Those are two of the worst expansions in the game. Way of Life just adds some events and bundles them (and existing events) with a swappable bonus you can pick. And it swapped a perfectly serviceable education system that was reasonably accurate to the history for a micromanagement mess.

I think Way of Life is probably the worst expansion too, but I must insist that it was Conclave that added the bad education system - it was like the only thing I dislike about Conclave.

As for Imperator, I also feel it is missing something important. Or some things. One of those is the focus on characters. I don't think I can go back from ck2 again. It just adds so much to have people to play as.

So far I've played a startout game in Crete and then I also decided to go through the tutorial. Rome is so OP, man

[feelotraveller]

From what I've seen of Imperator the modding support is pretty amazing, even for Paradox.

That doesn't contravene any of the above comments though. 

[USEC_OFFICER]

Having played Imperator for a couple hours I have to say that it's kinda bare-bones but a solid base for modders or Paradox to do something with. I pretty much expected that from watching a bunch of videos though so unless Paradox botches upcoming DLC and updates I'm fine with it.

The UI is pretty terrible though. It's big but has a little too much dead space and important information is scattered all over the place. It took me way too long to realize that province loyalty is a tiny bar underneath governor policy or something like that. The macro builder doesn't tell you how much money/manpower/whatever you'll get like in EU4 and there's no ledger so comparing nations is a pain.

Balance is also all over the place but at least that's something that modding can fix more easily. The recruitment building does little to affect your manpower, granaries are more for keeping slaves happy than increasing pop growth, so forts and marketplaces are kinda the only buildings worth building. Forts protect stuff while marketplaces give you a little extra money and increase civilization level in the city which is pretty difficult to do otherwise and more useful than 2 extra men a month. Manpower recovers in 25 years instead of 10 in EU4 so it's even more likely to be stuck twiddling your thumbs for several years. Moving pops is difficult and slow and positively required for colonization or playing tall. Omens vary between 'worthless', 'trade-goods give a better bonus' and 'absolutely amazing'. I've been running -2.5 unrest all game because no other bonus really comes close in usefulness for a big, conquering empire.

_{That was a little more negative than I thought it'd be but I'd say that my gripes are solid even if I'm enjoying the game otherwise.}

[Man of Paper]

I'm honestly used to worse Paradox releases. I feel like this one does what it says on the tin. I've seen a lot of people complaining about some serious issues, but I've yet to experience any. I did have a stutter for the first few days that passed in my first game so it got me worried, but after that it's been fairly smooth on my junker. It's also been a lot easier to pick up and run with than previous releases, at least for me. I'm on my second game (my first was the tutorial and I wanted to sleep, so I started fresh in the morning) and it's kept me thoroughly entertained. I also noticed small states will throw money at you if they're under attack from a larger power and you match/exceed the invader's strength. Some of the smaller southern states have funded three of my expansionistic wars now.

Peacetime definitely needs some work, though. Then again there's a lot of shit going on with the characters themselves and I haven't really delved into personal politics yet. Whenever Rome falls my next game is going to be some small state so I can focus on learning about peoples.

[scriver]

Yeah, paradox releases tend to be bad in the crash/stability and bug sense, but so far I haven't noticed much of that at all (not a single crash). So in that way it's a very good launch for them.

[Man of Paper]

So just to note, as Latin cultures you can occupy yourself during peacetime by building roads once you got the right tradition for it. I think it's the third one down the right path? That and fortress building has provided me with ample decisions to make during peacetime in regards to developing defensive infrastructure.

But that's not something that'll hold people's attention for long. As a nation that holds elections I'm finding it difficult to get attached to, or even familiar with, just about all of the characters and families. I did enjoy arresting and banishing the disloyal Julii though.