Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Kars]

Upon becoming a vampire on my elf with Superelven strength, his movement speed was set to 0.099. The only thing I can think of is that the muscle mass became so extreme that he can no longer move his legs. Is there a way to stop muscles from growing so freakishly huge? Or should I just become a vampire before hitting Superelven?

[Cthulhu_Pakabol]

(that doesn't help you but I just saw an opportunity to post it)

That being said, perhaps you're carrying too much? I doubt it's the reason, but it's worth checking.

[Rumrusher]

Upon becoming a vampire on my elf with Superelven strength, his movement speed was set to 0.099. The only thing I can think of is that the muscle mass became so extreme that he can no longer move his legs. Is there a way to stop muscles from growing so freakishly huge? Or should I just become a vampire before hitting Superelven?

yup that the thing the muscle mass you gain can hit too heavy for your body to support and drop the speed to 0.099
good news your swole and could punch folks dead, bad news anyone with a dex build could sneak up from behind and knife you in the back easily.

[Kars]

Nah itīs definitely not my carry weight, prior to becoming a slowly rolling solid mass of muscle I was killing elephants and using their corpses as blunt weapons and losing no speed while carrying the corpse, and I got rid of that a long time ago by throwing it at a human child. For fun I decided to try slowly crawling at someone and punching them, and their body flew away about 9 tiles. A dwarf-worthy elf

[Mathel]

What you are describing looks like an integer overflow on max. weight.
It probably is suppased to be a multiple of your strength, and since it is so big, it is more than the maximum value, so it start from 0 again.

At least, that is my guess.

[Rumrusher]

there posts that dive into this

Strength increase does cause muscle growth, by the way:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[TISSUE_TEMPLATE:MUSCLE_TEMPLATE]
   [TISSUE_NAME:muscle:muscles]
   [THICKENS_ON_STRENGTH] - This means this tissue's thickness goes up as the strength attribute goes up. Might actually gain weight at the same time?
   [ARTERIES]
   [SCARS]
   [MUSCULAR]
   [TISSUE_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:MUSCLE]
   [RELATIVE_THICKNESS:3]
   [HEALING_RATE:100]
   [VASCULAR:5]
   [PAIN_RECEPTORS:5]
   [CONNECTS]
   [TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]

Note that while you removed fat, the creature still remains the same volume (body size). The reason you lost weight is because now that volume is divided into bone, cartilage, muscle, and skin, and bone and cartilage are significantly less dense than fat. Muscle and skin are both denser than fat.

Max, you wouldn't happen to know if increased muscle mass automatically increases the strength attribute? I tested a couple years ago and it appears that by increasing thickness of the muscle tissue you can exert more force while the strength attribute is set to a constant value. Does DFhack actually support that the strength attribute value remains constant as muscle mass relative to body volume increases?
And if you reduce the density of muscle, then, would you then be able to move faster, say because your overall body weight is dropping while muscle thickness and strength remains constant?



In actual adventuring news, I'm trying to spar with my companion to train him, but I keep accidentally killing him!

this entire thread

so yeah apparently there a thickens on strength bit in the raws that increase base on the strength stat and slapping multipliers on it like being a vamp doubles the mass.
the mass adds to the weight and ends up being more than the current strength could muster. going by folks who poke around the data using dfhack and mods.

[Nodumbnamesonmymind]

From the wiki:

With higher Strength comes higher mass, which can nibble away at the advantages granted by higher Agility. For optimal speed potential, Agility must be in equal or higher proportion to Strength

So yeah, that may be it.

[Kars]

Alright, thanks guys. I figured it would be something like this. Now I just need to figure out how to slim my muscle mass down...

[Rumrusher]

Alright, thanks guys. I figured it would be something like this. Now I just need to figure out how to slim my muscle mass down...

just boost agility or remove the thicker due to strength bit in the raws for muscles so you dont end up handicapped by getting swole.

[Kars]

My agility is already capped I think, is there a way to increase it further? My Dodger skill is at least Legendary +40 (I've spent a long time in necromancer towers just dodging zombies...) So I'm not certain how my agility could be lower than my strength

[Melting Sky]

It might be worth dropping a reminder to ol' Toady on Mantis as well since this a very old bug with pretty serious consequences.

[Rumrusher]

It might be worth dropping a reminder to ol' Toady on Mantis as well since this a very old bug with pretty serious consequences.

  given the whole grow mass via strength is tied to a creature token and could be fixed by removing said token, the problem lies in agility not able to catch up with strength due to said creature token.

[Squirrelloid]

FWIW, increased muscle mass should also increase your ability to carry said muscle mass.  Muscles, how do they work?

I mean, yeah, there are scaling issues in body proportions - but you aren't suddenly becoming giant-size with the same relative proportions as a 6' human, so you shouldn't be eating that kind of scaling issue.

[mikekchar]

Konoshiki was the biggest successful sumo wrestler that I know about.  He was 287 kg at one point in his career.  He was carrying quite a lot of fat as well, but sumo wrestlers have a surprising amount of muscle.  I've never seen anyone above 200 kg move particularly quickly.  Musashimaru was 235 kg and could move pretty well for very short periods.  There are quite a lot of guys in the 180 kg range who can move like lightening (again for relatively short periods).  There really is a tipping point where you sacrifice a lot of speed even though you are carrying huge amounts of muscle.  If you look at most of the yokozuna (very highest rank) in the past 30 years or so, they gain quite a lot of muscle as they climb up the ladder to the top.  Normally young guys in the top division will be in the 120 kg range and almost invariably will be at 160 kg (at roughly the same body fat percentage) if they make yokozuna -- so probably 30+ kg of muscle being added.  While they are stronger and more successful, they almost always slow down.  The fastest yokozuna I can remember is Kitanofuji, who was only 135 kg as yokozuna.

[Bloax]

Moving slower is perfectly plausible due to a massive amount of muscle mass.
However, that is not the same as the topic of this thread - which is a bug where you go from Hero to Zero in an instant due to crossing a magical threshold of muscle mass where you suddenly hit critical mass and become practically immobile.