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Author Topic: Loyalty cascade in Adventure mode???  (Read 1407 times)

mikekchar

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Loyalty cascade in Adventure mode???
« on: June 03, 2017, 03:50:13 am »

Had an interesting experience.  I journeyed to a dwarfish area of the map.  There were many hillocks (like 30 or so) and a single fortress.  *Very* nearby was a goblin fortress and several dark pits.  Interestingly, all of the hillocks go to the goblin fortress to trade (seems scary to me).  Anyway, I ventured into one of the dark pits... and it was full of dwarfs!  There were maybe 4 or 5 goblins up top, but in the area below, just dwarfs.  I managed to subdue a couple of the dwarfs so that I could talk to them (and thereby use story telling as a way to see the history without going to legends mode).

The dark pit has a very sad history.  It seems that it was originally settled by goblins, but soon afterwards dwarfs started coming to study.  The abductions from the neighbouring dwarf hillocks were also very successful, so eventually there were many dwarfs living there.  I don't know why, but dwarfs also started emigrating to the dark pit.  These dwarfs all seem to worship the dwarven god of death and murder.  It is now the year 260 and for the last 40 years or so, every year, 20 dwarfs would immigrate and then about 20 dwarfs would be murdered.  Every single year!  I don't really know what to make of that...

My companion was getting slightly injured (and I was running out of food), so I stopped attacking the dark pit and wandered into a nearby hillock.  There I picked up a dwarf axe wielder whose entire family was either abducted by the dark pit, murdered in the dark pit, or murdered someone in the dark pit.  Seriously, every 5 steps he mentions another one.  At one point he seems to have had an extensive family....  Anyway, I decided take everybody to the dwarf fortress to see if we could get some steel armour.

Along the way, we encountered a camp.  It appeared to be part of an invasion force from the dark pit (all the dwarfs were wearing dwarf nail crowns, dwarf bone rings, etc, etc).  I had a "chat" with one of the  marksdwarfs (beat him into submission, told him to cease hostilities, talked with him -- which allows you to tell stories about him afterwards... eventually, as usual, he had second thoughts about ceasing hostilities and lost his head).  They were indeed from that dark pit. By the way, this was the first camp I've ever encountered in DF where everyone wasn't permanently asleep -- I wonder if the fact that I found them in the middle of the night had something to do with it...

I didn't really think much about this, but instead made my way back to the dwarf fortress, where I haggled for some steel armour and read many, many books.  On the way back up to the surface, I noticed that there was fighting in the trade depot.  The military commander was absolutely wailing on the philosophers.  "This is the way of dwarf fortress", I thought and started wandering over to the tavern when I noticed several hostile military dwarfs.  Looking more closely I could see that they were wearing the same dwarf bone jewellery as the dwarfs in the camp.  My companions and I sprang into action.  I killed at least 20, while my companions killed probably 3-4 each before things calmed down.  However, the internal combat in the fortress lasted all night.  I stayed out of it -- nobody was hostile to me.  There was a mountain of corpses to clean up in the morning.

The next day, having had my fill of strange battles, I left the fortress with my companions.  However, we once again encountered a roving band of dwarfs.  I was ready for battle, but I realised that these dwarfs were not wearing any gruesome jewellery.  In fact one of them was the baron consort of the dwarf civilisation.  I chatted with him, but couldn't find out where they were going.  They didn't have a camp, but were just pacing back and forth.  Interested to know what he thought of me, I asked him and he said that I was a killer and unhinged.  He pointed out that I had killed one of the invaders the night before (I had made no mention of it).

So, this was enough for me to pull out legends mode.  Unfortunately, I'm playing with restricted history, so I can't piece the whole thing together.  It appears, though, that the baron consort I met lived in the dwarf fortress.  Legends mode made no mention of the attack on the fortress, except for tallying up all the dwarfs I killed.  It also didn't mention anything going awry in the fortress (there was no insurrection attempt, for instance).  Looking a little deeper, I discovered that the baron consort was abducted as a child and lived in the dark pit.  Indeed, he had lived there at the same time as the dwarf I killed.  The baron consort eventually escaped and moved to the dwarf fortress where he married the baroness.  He was never a citizen of the goblin civilisation.

So, my interpretation of all the above is that the dwarfs of the dark pit attacked.  The dwarf fortress defended itself (especially the military commander), but this caused a loyalty cascade in the fortress because the invading force included family of the people living in the fortress.  I happened to be there and killed virtually the entire invading force.  Eventually the loyalty cascade wound down and everything was fine.  But there are dwarfs who now hate me for killing their friends and family.

Given that I'm an elf, I suppose it's a better reason to be hated than the normal one.  Still, this is a first for me.
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bluephoenix

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Re: Loyalty cascade in Adventure mode???
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2017, 05:28:21 pm »

That is very interesting, I sometimes get loyalty cascades in fortress mode if the invading goblins are sending dwarves, maybe it's related.
Maybe send a bug report to the mantis tracker with a save file?
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mikekchar

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Re: Loyalty cascade in Adventure mode???
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2017, 07:51:43 pm »

I don't think it's a bug.  It was just a bit confusing.  To be honest, I found it quite fun.  Especially, this is the first time that I've experienced an invading force in adventure mode.  Usually they just sleep forever in their camps.  But it's possible that this is the first world I genned in 43.05, so I have my fingers crossed that the sleeping bug is *actually* fixed.

There are really 2 things I'd love to have improved with this situation: First, it would be *awesome* if there was some mention of what happened in legends mode.  Absolutely nothing about an invasion, who defended, etc.  Being part of the event and not having it show up in legends mode is quite disheartening.

The second thing I'd love is to have some clue in adventure mode what's happening.  Even if you get them to cease hostilities, the only thing they say when you ask why they are travelling is: "I'm on an important mission".  Also, there is no easy way to separate the invaders from the defenders -- just that one side was hostile and the other side wasn't.  As an adventurer, you've got no clue what historical event is happening, even though you are there.  Even just being able to ask someone later, "What just happened?" would be great (though, given that it wasn't recorded in legends mode, presumably the game doesn't know).

Finally, wrt the potential loyalty cascade (and the previous point), it would be great if the game gave you some clues why people are fighting.  An invading force could yell out "For Chainsteals!" and the defending force could yell out, "Defend Rockyyouth!", for example.  If it is an loyalty cascade, they could yell out "You traitor!", or "I will have my revenge on you!" or something similar.  This would presumably be quite a bit easier to implement.

Probably I should put these suggestions in the suggestions thread... :-P
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mikekchar

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Re: Loyalty cascade in Adventure mode???
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2017, 09:32:21 pm »

Sorry for the double post, but since it is not really related to the previous one...

The plot has thickened.  I decided to move away from that crazy place, but along the way we ran into a human whose aunt had been abducted by a different goblin fortress.  I offered (rather brashly) to save her and he joined our band.  But I felt bad for our axe dwarf, Risen, who complained step after step after step about his relatives in the dark pit of Chainsteals.  I resolved to go there first, clean it out and let the dwarfs get on with their lives without all this retribution.

On our way we encountered yet another band of bone-bejewelled dwarfs, presumably from Chainsteals.  "Excellent", I though, "We'll get some practice along the way!"  Only...

Risen suddenly attacked our newly joined human, Seba.  I called out to him to stop this foolishness.  And he replied, "Never!".  I told him to yield and his only reply was, "You first, coward!".  Suddenly his icon changed from an '@' to an axedwarf.  I checked our agreements and was surprised to find - "The agreement has concluded".  He betrayed us!!!

I rushed in and after a very hard battle (Risen was wielding a steel axe and was covered in steel armour), we were victorious.  Seba, though, had his left foot and ankle mangled beyond recognition.  The other attacking dwarfs, realising that they were well out matched, legged it and I let them go.

Taking a look in legends mode all I see was "Risen concluded the agreement after a violent disagreement".

Crazy dwarfs!

Edit: I try to be accommodating to other religious beliefs, but this is the last time I'm inviting along someone who greets me with "Praise be murder".

Edit 2: I tried to drop off Seba at Rockyouth (the dwarf fortress in question).  I got ambushed along the way.  My journey long companion (another elf) got lost and after killing all the attackers I made it back to Rockyouth.  There, I was greeted to the scholars spitting on me.  Another attacked Seba, killing him.  At this point I had had enough.  I reluctantly left Rockyouth, without finding my elf companion, and set off for the land of the humans -- maybe they aren't so crazy...  Along the way, I picked up a drunk dwarf in order to ward off Bogey men.  After 2 days, we finally made it to the first Human hamlet, and the drunk informed me that Rockyouth had waited out an insurrection.  Telling a story about it, I learned, "In the late spring of 260, the insurrection in Rockyouth against the Relic of Manors ended with the disappearance of the rebelling population."  My notable kill list has grown to 52 -- 48 of which are dwarfs.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 05:26:34 am by mikekchar »
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Urist McVoyager

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Re: Loyalty cascade in Adventure mode???
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2017, 03:07:48 pm »

Was that insurrection the force you had killed?
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mikekchar

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Re: Loyalty cascade in Adventure mode???
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2017, 11:16:56 pm »

I had to get legends browser out to figure out what happened.  It is convoluted!

The dwarfs of Chainsteals attacked Rockyouth.  The first to respond was a woodcutter named Sarvesh Tradeclash, who killed 4 of the invaders.  Somehow, in the melee an unwitting mathematician by the name of Thob Cavesense accidentally collided with a scholar named Ingish Cudgellanced.  Ingish died of the wounds.  This caused an engineer by the name of Lokum Salvemeetings to attack Thob.  Asmel Wheelrazors, tried to protect Thob, and eventually killed Lokum, but not before Thob had received a killing blow from which he eventually suffocated.

This is where I entered the picture.  It was a bit of a free for all -- mostly scholars killing each other.  But the invasion was still underway -- you see a beekeeper by the name of Kivish Clinchgranite killing one of the invaders, but then turning his attention to a a scholar, only to be killed by another scholar.  An astronomer, Unib Minechanneled killed Asmel Wheelrazors (who was trying to protect Thob), and then killed and invader called Mafol Glazedmatch.  This same Mafol was married to an accomplished Speardwarf named Thikut Whipclutched the Rot of Conflagrations, who came back 2 days later for his revenge (as we will see).

Not knowing what was going on, I kept my attention on the invaders.  DF did a good job of only making the invaders hostile and in looking at legends browser I can see that all of the dwarfs I killed were indeed from Chainsteals.  My mistake, if you can call it that, appears to have been in slaying an invader by the name of Led Kindlefortress.  2 days later when I was trying to drop off my injured companion, any scholar I talked to would reply to me, "You are a murderer.  You killed Led Kindlefortress."  A scholar by the name Alath Vaultedtreaties attacked my human companion Seba and eventually killed him.

According to legends browser, this is the beginning of the "insurrection".  It seem's that Alath's former master was a scholar by the name of Sodel Lashcobalt.  One of Sodel's apprentices was Ezum Relicassault -- who was coincidentally (?) abducted as a child and grew up on Chainsteals.  Ezum remained a member of the goblin civ while moving to Rockyouth to apprentice under Sodel.
 Another of Sodel's apprentices was Unib Minechanneled -- the astronomer who killed Asmel (who was protecting Thob, who unwittingly started the mess) as well as Mafo Glazedmatch.

You may remember that Mafo Glazedmatch was the wife of Thikut Whipclutched the Rot of Conflagrations.  After killing Alath, I left Rockyouth in disgust, but on the way out the door, I was accosted by Thikut.  I didn't think much of it (other than it was a difficult battle), but killing Thikut appears to have been the end of the "insurrection" in Rockyouth.

I left Rockyouth, hoping to leave this chapter behind me, and made my way to a human city on the other side of the realm -- Dimpleleopard.  In researching what has happened, I noticed on other curious fact. Ezum Relicassault, Sodel Lashcobalt's apprentice, who gre up in Chainsteals is now coincidentally (?) residing in Dimpleleopard.

This is by far the most interesting and twisted Dwarf Fortress adventure I have ever embarked upon.  I really wish the tools made it easier to piece together the intrigue, because it is fascinating.
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