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Author Topic: From where do invasions originate?  (Read 1776 times)

wooks

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From where do invasions originate?
« on: February 23, 2017, 11:21:39 pm »

It seems to me from my history perusing that your fort will only ever be invaded from the nearest site of any of the civs it has contact with. This may be an explanation for why goblin invasions in the most recent versions have been somewhat lackluster. I have no idea if this is a fixable sort of issue, or if I am even correct. I bring this information for input from you guys, so, what's your thoughts?
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StagnantSoul

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Re: From where do invasions originate?
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2017, 12:16:36 am »

You see all those settlements, hamlets, and towns across the map? They come from those. The soldiers in all those are gathered into squads, and then those squads into an army, and they start marching for your fort, interacting with things randomly along the way. For example, a roc flying by who's their enemy may slaughter the army on the way to your fort, or the elven force may intercept them as they notice them walking by their forest, and so on. The world's alive, and everything you see comes from outside somewhere. Massacres, megabeast attacks, and the like all lower the amount of hist figs in a town, meaning less soldiers and such, meaning less likely to march off after you.
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: From where do invasions originate?
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2017, 01:26:13 am »

You see all those settlements, hamlets, and towns across the map? They come from those. The soldiers in all those are gathered into squads, and then those squads into an army, and they start marching for a fort, interacting with things randomly along the way.
FTFY; I think it perhaps does work this way - thousands-strong sieges - with worldgen, but post-worldgen it is as the OP says.

As for the OP, my solution is ensuring that the closest site, if not the only site, is major site with strong population with map painting.

PatrikLundell

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Re: From where do invasions originate?
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2017, 03:19:27 am »

I agree with Fleeting Frames. As far as I know all sieges on a fortress from a civ comes from a single settlement, drawn from that settlement's population. When the settlement runs out of population, you run out of sieges because DF doesn't currently know how to recruit from other sites post world gen. I've had a case where the site that sent the first goblin siege continued to send sieges both when it was under the control of a different goblin civ and when it was no longer under control of any civ. It took 70+ years for the population to regrow from siege depopulation to send another two paltry sieges of raw recruits before it was depopulated (i.e. down to single digits) again.
Similarly, civs continue to send caravans even though they've been wiped out.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: From where do invasions originate?
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2017, 07:37:59 am »

Next release, armies will be attracted by your artifacts, not just your nearness. They'll apparently come from further away.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: From where do invasions originate?
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2017, 07:50:04 am »

I hope you're correct that others than the designated racial neighbors could come calling, but I haven't seen it said directly, so I wouldn't be surprised if the only ones who'd do it are the (up to) 3 racial neighbors initially.
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StagnantSoul

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Re: From where do invasions originate?
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2017, 08:03:14 am »

Next release, armies will be attracted by your artifacts, not just your nearness. They'll apparently come from further away.

If they want this turkey bone amulet they can gave it.
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If any of them are made of fire, throw stuff, run, and think non-flammable thoughts.

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: From where do invasions originate?
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2017, 09:25:26 am »

I hope you're correct that others than the designated racial neighbors could come calling, but I haven't seen it said directly, so I wouldn't be surprised if the only ones who'd do it are the (up to) 3 racial neighbors initially.
I asked Toady on fotf. He responded yes (probably). Not going to dig it out.
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klefenz

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Re: From where do invasions originate?
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2017, 03:35:05 pm »

Next release, armies will be attracted by your artifacts, not just your nearness. They'll apparently come from further away.

If they want this turkey bone amulet they can gave it.
Toady said there will be diplomacy with sieges, so you can just give them the turkey bone amulet.

It will be really underwhelming if most sieges end like this, well, you will be able to decide when to say no and fight for the sake of fighting.

PatrikLundell

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Re: From where do invasions originate?
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2017, 05:07:17 pm »

@Shonai_Dweller: Either sloppy reading or slippery non-stick memory on my part then.

@klefenz: What do you mean "for the sake of fighting?". The filthy <insert civ here> are trying to strong-arm us righteous dorfs into giving away our birthright! You can't have that, in particular as it just encourages them to return (see Kobold behavior, even if I've never experienced that personally).
[And the fact that there's good goblinite in the bargain has no influence on the decision, of course].
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Urist McVoyager

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Re: From where do invasions originate?
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2017, 05:27:24 pm »

I've experienced it. Those thieves can put up a fight when they want to, and they swarm all over you. I'd happily train up an army and leave out random useless shit for them to steal next time I have a castle built, just to fight them again.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: From where do invasions originate?
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2017, 06:34:28 pm »

Found it:

Quote
So, is the plan during fortress mode to have some invaders specifically target your site because you have artifacts? When rumours of your artifacts spread, will invaders potentially come from further away (i.e not neighbours) to attack you, or will it only effect the rate that nearby goblins invade (like wealth and exported wealth now)?

Oh, and if an adventurer loots an npc artifact and delivers it to a player fortress, are you likely to get irate invaders (or adventuring groups?!) specifically come looking for it while you're playing as that fortress?


I expect they'll be able to come from farther away.  And yeah, if you secure an artifact by whatever means (sending out one of the new patrols, or through adv mode and then unretiring), you'll be on the hook for any claims.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 06:59:52 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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feelotraveller

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Re: From where do invasions originate?
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2017, 11:02:37 pm »

Coming soon: The Artifact Wars  8)
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PatrikLundell

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Re: From where do invasions originate?
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2017, 05:58:59 am »

I don't read the quote as a confirmation for the next release, but rather for a longer term, as adding new invaders would require messing with the diplomacy/siege/trade season stuff, but still, I hope it will make it in.
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Putnam

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Re: From where do invasions originate?
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2017, 06:02:49 am »

I don't read the quote as a confirmation for the next release, but rather for a longer term, as adding new invaders would require messing with the diplomacy/siege/trade season stuff, but still, I hope it will make it in.

? No it won't, the current invasion system already runs on armies passing through. If the next version has armies that set out with a mission of retrieving artifacts (which it does), your fortress will be able to be beset upon by those armies.
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