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The Federation of Mars

9 (37.5%)

The Outer Systems Republic

15 (62.5%)

Total Members Voted: 23

[Hanzoku]

And privately, I think they're full of it.

And fair enough on not wanting to run geosurvey teams. On one hand, it's a shame, because sometimes they find absolutely massive deposits, especially if they're high skill. On the other hand, they can find absolutely massive deposits, which really throws off planning.

I was mostly thinking that the diplomacy teams would be good for RP by assigning names/ranks to the embassies, rather then for the game mechanics.

[Lorknis]

I agree with the current proposal full-heartily. I'm not much of a gambler so until we either discover jump point theory or confirm the outer rim has more resources, we can't give up the inner rim. 

[Sheb]

Shouldn't we just push for free for all in both belts? If they invest in the outer belt, where, guess who will have its colonies cut off from the Homeworld in case of war....

[Lorknis]

Shouldn't we just push for free for all in both belts? If they invest in the outer belt, where, guess who will have its colonies cut off from the Homeworld in case of war....

I don't think they would be as dumb as to establish colonies in the outer rim and not at least have some warships there (and troops in the colonies). While it would be a neat idea to have their colonies cut off, they ships that they push to have set up there could do damage when were not looking.

[Sheb]

Maybe we should ask about demilitarized zones rather than mining rights then.

[Hanzoku]

I generally approve of your proposal. The DSTS requirement might be onerous though, why not select 4-6 posts around the belt and build them as listening post with several DSTS each instead?

I checked, and asteroid orbital motion is off, so this is a pretty valid plan. That said, I'm not sure if we won't need up to 12 (one in each 'hour') listening posts to ensure solid coverage of heat signatures, but Azzuro can give us an indication of feasible options. I think the DSTS should be installed where we already have claims, as we can just claim them as another part of the mining complexes.

In regards to demilitarized zones, you'll see I proposed the inner asteroid belt as a DMZ - we would not place warships in the inner system or belt, and they would not place warships in the belt or the outer system.

[Sheb]

If they accept that, I think we don't need mining rights. We can just grab their stuff in war if needed.

[Azzuro]

Bear in mind that passive sensor ranges aren't absolute, they detect stronger signatures at longer ranges and vice versa. If you look at the picture of the northern main belt I posted earlier, the blue circle in the upper left is the passive sensor range of Callisto for 2 DSTS detecting signature strength 195 (same as the observed Federation destroyer). You could claim up to 12 asteroids which could give you encircling coverage of the main belt, but bear in mind that the Federation could still slip through if they were willing to run their ships at extremely reduced speeds. It would also necessitate claiming some asteroids without minerals, as seen in the gap to the north-east part of the belt, and of course require building 24 DSTSes. On the upside, you would be able to see the movements of all Federation freighters, colony ships and other large ships (which require more engine power to move their mass at the same speed), and may possibly get a glimpse of Federation ships if they are unaware that a DSTS is located nearby.

[Karlito]

Mining Rights

6. I'm for free development of mineral resources in the inner and outer belts. The inner belt is more accessible and has shorter delivery times then outer belt claims. We also have no idea if the outer belt is even resource rich, so giving the Federation full rights to the inner belt is gambling that we receive any sort of return in the outer belt. Furthermore, as soon as the Federation has fully developed the inner belt, they'll break the treaty and start developing the outer belt, particularly if it is more resource rich.

7. I am fully against giving up current claims in the inner asteroid belt, with the exception of Klotho. We may be prepared to sell them the Klotho claim for the value of 10,000 tons of Duranium and 24 tons of Uridium.

((Well by the time Sol System resource scarcity really starts to matter we'll hopefully have access to the resources of other star systems))

My only concern with free development of resources is that it doesn't do anything to address the causes of the Klotho crisis, so we're likely to see similar incidents in the future. At the very least both governments should agree to an explicit protocol for making and recognizing each other's claims. My other suggestion is that both governments agree to a limit on the number of claims they may make in a year, so that we won't see anyone suddenly claiming half the belt.

I'm in favor of all the other proposals though.

[Azzuro]

Ceres - 20th May 2100, 04:20 UTC

Classical music plays over the speakers as the Federation delegation takes their seats. CEO Hanzoku begins the summit with a comprehensive proposal covering civilian management, survey and mining rights, military codes of conduct, and even suggesting improvements in diplomatic ties between the two polities. His nearly ten-minute long speech, however, draws only sidelong looks and uncomfortable fidgeting from the Federation side of the room.

A Federation Administrator rises from his chair to deliver the Federation's response. He coughs twice, and speaks, "The Federation of Mars, while we are committed to the survival of humanity as a whole through peace, believes that there cannot be true peace until there is only one polity covering the solar system. To that end, we will do whatever it takes to ensure humanity's unity."

On the word 'unity', every member of the Federation delegation draws a personal sidearm and opens fire, while FSS agents lay down a devastating automatic barrage with their gauss machineguns. About a third of the Republic's party is killed instantly, and the security guards take precious seconds to scramble for cover before returning fire.




In orbit, William Herschel is rocked by rapid-fire impacts that quickly chew through her armour. A lucky shot strikes Commander Finch's bunk and kills him instantly, while the on-duty bridge staff scramble to ready their railguns, hindered by the utter panic that is gripping the ship's crew.



It is no use. Having taken the Republic by surprise, the William Herschel disintegrates into a shattered wreck in orbit over Ceres, without firing a single shot in return. In the compound below, FSS agents sweep room-by-room, massacring the Republic's delegation to the last man.

Ny Enhet, Ganymede - 20th May 2100, 04:20 UTC




Thirty-four drive plumes bloom across the screens at the Callisto Deep Space Monitor Array, appearing just 400 kiloklicks from Ganymede. "That's impossible!" cries the operators at Callisto. "They can't have known that the upper commanders of the Navy would be gone on this exact day, May 20th!"

The Federation fleet summarily blasts the three Falcons from RNB Tapperhet out of orbit before proceeding to destroy the orbital shipyards, crippling the Republic's ability to make war. As the three Carrier Fleets burn at maximum power toward Ganymede, particle beams obliterate Ny Enhet from the face of the moon, and the Federation taskforce commander delivers an ultimatum to the inbound Republic warships: surrender their ships or the 380 million Republic citizens on Ganymede suffer the same fate. After five minutes of frantic deliberations between the Republic captains, bereft of higher command, they surrender to protect the population on Ganymede.

The other four moons of the Republic also vote to join the Federation, in the face of their overwhelming space superiority. Having succeeded in unifying all of humanity, the Federation of Mars renames itself the United Federation of Planets, while the Outer Systems Republic is consigned to the footnotes of human history.

BAD END

((Well, thanks for playing Aurora! Head on over to Forum Games for my next game, You Are A Galactic Polity, featuring the winner of this one, the United Federation of Planets!))

April Fools! Actual update will come tomorrow, when the Federation responds to Hanzoku's proposals in a less violent fashion.

[Karlito]

((Ha, you got me ))

[Hanzoku]

((Oh. Well, that was a disappointing thing.

If this is for tomorrow, you're a day early. ))

[Azzuro]

Ceres Summit - 20th May 2100, 04:20 UTC

Classical music plays over the speakers as the Federation delegation takes their seats. CEO Hanzoku begins the summit with a comprehensive proposal outlining civilian management, survey and mining rights, military codes of conduct, and even suggesting improvements in diplomatic ties between the two polities. After his ten-minute long opening address, there is a short break before the summit moves to discuss the main issue of mineral and colonisation rights in the Main Belt and beyond.

A Federation Administrator, identified by his nameplate as Administrator Jay Hartley of Luna, stands and speaks, "We are in full agreement with CEO Hanzoku's sentiments that the resources of the asteroid belt should be freely developed by humanity, instead of being constrained by conflict between our two powers. However, we are also concerned that one power may fall behind in space exploration and exploitation, to the point where open conflict would seem to be the only recourse to avoid falling into irrelevance, thus negating our efforts here to prevent war."

"To that end, we have drafted a convention between the Republic and the Federation on legitimate claiming of space bodies and the mutual recognisance of each other's claims, with a mechanism for ensuring both powers are nominally matched in extent of claims. To begin with, we will reaffirm our recognition of the current Republic colonies on 52 Europa, Psyche, Wolf-Harrington, Machholz and Klotho, as long as the Republic does likewise for our colonies on Astraea, Aurelia and Ariadne."

"The meat of the matter which brought us here today was the lack of verification of claims. Under our convention, both powers shall be entitled to send inspectors to verify the other's claims to an asteroid in person, provided that said inspectors are conveyed there by ships of the claiming power, and provided that the inspectors carry just enough equipment to verify that they are on the correct asteroid to prevent trickery. Claims shall be recognised as legitimate if they have at least one installation of any kind (except colonist infrastructure) on the body in question, regardless of the population or lack thereof."

"Both powers shall be matched in number of bodies claimed. At the current moment, the Federation will be entitled to claim two more asteroids immediately to match the Republic's five claims. Thereafter, neither of the powers may have more than one more claim over the other, so if the Republic were to make a sixth claim, it could not make a seventh until the Federation made its sixth claim. To prevent one power unilaterally holding up the development of the asteroid belt, both powers are entitled to continue claiming one additional asteroid every six months after their previous claim if the other power has not matched it in that time."

"With regard to 'moving' colonies on a comet, the current standard of a 10 million km exclusion cordon shall not apply . Within that limit, no military ships may be stationed at a comet colony, although civilian ships will be allowed to pass to the colony, subject to inspection by the power controlling that space. This will preserve the sovereignty of each power as much as possible without unduly hindering the development of TNE-rich comets."

Spoiler: Ceres Accords (click to show/hide)

Ceres Accords

Hartley Convention on Claim and Transit Rights
Here asteroid is shorthand for asteroids, trojan asteroids, comets, moons of the inner six planets and dwarf planets
1. Each power will have an equal number of asteroid claims at the time of this accord, verified in the least intrusive manner possible by the other power.
2. Each power may make one more claim at any time if they have equal or lesser number of total claims than the other power. The power with more claims may not make a claim except under point 3.
3. Each power will be entitled to claim at a minimum rate of one asteroid per six months, if the other power has not matched their number of claims in that period.
4. The claiming of an asteroid will be verified in the least intrusive manner possible by the other power, and a legitimate claim is defined as having at least one installation on the body in question, with the exception of purely colonial infrastructure.
5. A claim to a body will include a 10 million km exclusion cordon of space around the body, in which any ships (military or civilian) or the other power may not pass, excepting the circumstances in point 6.
6. In the case of comets and other 'moving' bodies, such an exclusion cordon will not apply at all within 230 million km of the sun, or 230 million km of the current position of Jupiter, and the powers controlling those spaces will be allowed to pass any ships at any distance from the comet colony. The claiming power may not station any military ships at the comet, but is allowed to transit civilian ships within the other power's sphere of influence to their colony, subject to inspection.

Another Federation official, one Administrator Elizabeth Brennan of Federal Aurelia, speaks as well, "We are interested in taking up CEO Hanzoku's offer of selling us their claim to Klotho, for the price of 10,000 tons Duranium and 24 tons Uridium. We will additionally offer the mineral and credit price of however many mines the Republic has on Klotho to purchase them as well, to simplify the handover process. The Federation will of course forfeit the claiming of two more asteroids under Hartley's convention if this deal goes through."


((Well, this is my first time doing so much diplomacy, so if you guys have any questions about the Federation's terms, you can ask OOC. I've decided to split the Summit up into topics, from claiming/transit rights -> civilian management and trade -> survey rights -> military standards to break down the discussion into more manageable parts, though nothing will be signed until the very end of the summit, and you guys can bring the discussion back to previous points at any time.

Also to shed some light on the milieu of this LP, the Republic and the Federation are the only polities covering all of humanity; there are no neutral states of any sort. That's why the Federation included the verification to be done by inspectors from the other power, instead of setting up an independent international commission or regulatory authority that is common to diplomatic accords today, as any such commission would be powerless and de facto not independent anyway in the setting. Also, the Federation is not a monolithic decision-making entity, there are little separate factions and power blocs within them that I'm RPing, so expect the Federation's behaviour to be occasionally inconsistent rather than perfectly rational powergaming.))

[TalonisWolf]

At a first glance, those terms sound advantageous enough to accept. If we do claim a comet, I submit a proposal to equip it with sensors to get a peek into Federation territory.

Spoiler: You were... slightly off. (click to show/hide)

[Sheb]

I'd rather trade the mine of Klotho for equivalent amount of mines or something. Mines don't only cost minerals and money, but also manufacturing time. I'd also would wish a mineral report exchange on the current claims before agreeing to them.