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[Dunamisdeos]

I usually whip out a few dozen gold crafts ASAP.

You can trade for everything you need from elves for 1-2 gold rings or whatnot, unless you want their pet grizzlies (make sure to mention their propensity to bring exotic pets).

Even those can usually be traded for a good gold craft.

::EDIT, SUDDEN SUBJECT CHANGE::

I mentioned water and hospital water and waterways earlier. I shell out advice on the subject of safe water transportation fairly often, so my two cents are lengthy pontification is as follows, though it probably belongs in an advanced section, and someone else may have refinements.

Spoiler: On creating a safely sealed, accessible waterway (click to show/hide)

The main thing is to create a renewable (or at least vast in volume) course of water for sick or injured dwarves, and for non-dwarf residents. However, you don't want dangerous baddies to sneak in to the system from outside, and you don't want to flood your fort.

Below is a 100% SUPER GREAT SERIES of diagrams showing how to do all this safely. So long as the water source is large enough, you can pump water to anywhere in your fort. Use grates as shown to prevent anything from entering your fort through the water system. You can even link the grates to levers if you want to access those sections of pipe later (for cleaning, perhaps). This is also the purpose of the drains in each section of pipe.

Grates are invulnerable from below, BUT it's important to note that there must be no accessible path to the rear (right hand) grate (see third diagram). This is the reason for the front (left most) grate.

Spoiler: On piercing water sources (click to show/hide)

You can almost always use this method to safely pierce a source of water from the side or above. Be sure to only pierce it after your safe pipeline is completed.

You can also pierce an aquifer from below to achieve this effect. It is more dangerous in terms of initial drowning, but hey, no baddies will ever come through your pipe if it's sourced from solid rock.

Spoiler: A GREAT diagram for GRATES ahah (click to show/hide)

It is also easy to add wells to your underground pipe system. Just make sure that the water flows diagonally from the pressurized pipe to the well area. Your dwarves should have no problem escaping the rapidly filling well area, and the water will not rise above the well level.

Spoiler: Visual on diagonal water movement (click to show/hide)

[ldog]

The weight differences between wood/stone barrels/pots for the most part (obviously very light/heavy material makes a difference) are trivial. You are talking about shit that weighs an average of 12u. Most people who write noob guides make a lot more of this than matters, and then it becomes ingrained in most of us.
Stuff made of metal can take you by surprise, I thought it would be cool to give my troops gold flasks and was shocked by how heavy they were. Metal barrels are probably heavy.
Differences in vermin resistance are probably non-existent. At any rate you would have to actually put effort into running out of food after the first year in this game. It just isn't worth worrying overly much about it. I have more trouble finding storage for it all than anything.

The first time your well floods your entire fort you are going to regret not heeding Dunamisdeos advice.

[Dunamisdeos]

Thanks Dunamisdeos for the water diagrams, I shall read them with interest. I'm trying to avoid diagonal-flow pressure regulators as it feels like an exploit. Why yes, I do have masochistic tendencies, why do you ask?

I never thought about that....... then I recommend an airlock system!

Spoiler: Diagrams for days (click to show/hide)

Raising bridges prevent pathing issues, and are invulnerable to destruction by most creatures when raised.

For the exploit avoidance, not the masochism.

[ldog]

Thanks Dunamisdeos for the water diagrams, I shall read them with interest. I'm trying to avoid diagonal-flow pressure regulators as it feels like an exploit. Why yes, I do have masochistic tendencies, why do you ask?

I never thought about that....... then I recommend an airlock system!

Spoiler: Diagrams for days (click to show/hide)

Raising bridges prevent pathing issues, and are invulnerable to destruction by most creatures when raised.

For the exploit avoidance, not the masochism.

But, but, but...that's an exploit! That isn't the bridges intended use
</sarcasm>

I get it though. We all have our favorite exploits that we don't consider exploits, and then other exploits we consider exploits because they offend our sensibilities as being in bad taste/too gamey/whatevs.

Great little diagrams by the way, just 1 point bears clarifying: diagonal allows pressure to the level below. So at the same level as a well, it will allow the reservoir to fill but not flood the well.

After this exercise with bins and all kinds of different stockpiles I am ready to say fuck no to bins again, and go back to QSP without a shred of guilt. Just too many parts of the game that still work like shit.

So Mixtrak, from the new diagrams I surmise you are going to a 2 wide main corridor design. Decided too much walking? I was thinking the same, although I like the idea in theory that one could run caravans through side tunnels off the 4 cardinal direcitons, and/or move the depot anywhere...I just don't see it being worthwhile (but trust me move those friggin levers...being able to get a carvan up/down the central stairwell is worthwhile).

[Squirrelloid]

You can also use a floodgate.  Or a door.  Just be aware that a monster building destroyer who gets in your sewer will break the floodgate, whereas a properly oriented raised bridge should be impervious (I believe they can only break it from the side it raises *towards*, but don't quote me on that).

[LtGreeneyes]

Greetings, I'm abandoning my current fort on a volcano (Lots of gems, gold, copper/silver, lead/silver, etc., but not enough useful ores) and starting fresh in a new world with your guide just to see how it goes. I've played a lot in the past, but I wouldn't claim much in the way of expertise, mostly just a pretty decent familiarity with the game as a whole. Let's see how this goes.

[Dunamisdeos]

You can also use a floodgate.  Or a door.  Just be aware that a monster building destroyer who gets in your sewer will break the floodgate, whereas a properly oriented raised bridge should be impervious (I believe they can only break it from the side it raises *towards*, but don't quote me on that).

Can confirm that bridges are invuln from both sides when raised.

Greetings, I'm abandoning my current fort on a volcano (Lots of gems, gold, copper/silver, lead/silver, etc., but not enough useful ores) and starting fresh in a new world with your guide just to see how it goes. I've played a lot in the past, but I wouldn't claim much in the way of expertise, mostly just a pretty decent familiarity with the game as a whole. Let's see how this goes.

BETA TEST GO.

[LtGreeneyes]

If it's okay, I'm going to chronicle a little bit here of my experience with the guide...

First off, I selected a few different settings during world generation.
Large World & Minerals everywhere

Next, I took 2 males and 3 females of each recommended animal (untrained dogs), which dented my points a bit, but also speeds up animal production. The smaller number of points saw me leaving cooking off my skill list. Otherwise, I pretty much followed the setup guidelines. Looking at my dwarves today, though (I set up yesterday), it seems I have two dwarves with carpentry and woodcutting... I may have made a mistake. Oh well!

My parent civilization, The Wayward Mine (only 609 of us left), has been beset by a grand total of five wars, all perpetrated by a nearby large tribe of goblins (over 4k!) led by the female fox demon Arido Rulednoble the Bug of Dragons. Luckily, it seems that after the year 71, they decided to rest for 10 years before becoming engaged in three wars with other dwarven holdings.

The Entangled Helms of Drilling set out on the 1st of Slate, year 125 to found Gangmetal. The site is quite satisfactory, with plentiful lignite, hematite, native platinum, and more just sitting exposed on the surface. There aren't many trees and clay is sparse, but we have sand and it seems we'll be swimming in ores before long. The stream to the NorthWest will help ensure we have plenty of water.

It is now the 12th of Slate. We have begun preparing the large courtyard entrance to the fort. I understand the plans we received described a large portion of the fort as being exterior, but with the goblins and TWO towers in the vicinity, as well as kobolds, we have decided to restrict as much exterior access to the fortress as possible. Once we have enough stone, we'll construct a wall with a drawbridge entrance and build it high enough to prevent the damned greenskins from firing down on us from the cliffside. We've begun digging out the main entrance hallway for the fortress... it might be time soon to begin actually preparing designs for the fortress... I'll have to further consult the plans to see if we can use them.

[Dunamisdeos]

Watching your playthrough with interest!

[ldog]

Commenting on the new section here, I think you are on the right track with the isolated wings, but should use even more Z levels. So instead of the little siderooms for storage, if you added another 11x11 (or maybe even 9x9) room top and bottom, making each "node" 5 levels, and subdivided those into various piles you would actually have more storage area but there would be a lot less walking involved. Putting the 11x11 just off the main corridors on 1 side, and then the other side you still have space for some 3x3 rooms would make this even more efficient.

Example:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm pretty sure a bridge is a bridge; the material doesn't matter. Normally I embark with a few pieces of stone and make blocks out of it ASAP, but if you built the bridge out of wood and linked mechanisms to it then I wouldn't bother replacing it; maybe later for aesthetics but certainly not an early priority.

Pig tails and plump helmets grow in 25 days, everything else in 41.6 days. So I would again recommend for the growing rotation 1:1 on PT/DC. Easiest is to go in pairs with fields, DC/PT/PT/DC in 1 and SP/CW/QB/PH in the other. Even if you brew & make paper out of say half your PT, you'll likely still barely have enough dye when you add in wool & silk. Shearing produces 7 thread per sheep/alpaca, 15 for a llama.

Oh, and wouldn't go crazy recommending the wood pots - remember you need wood bins (metal are heavy). If you don't have coal, you'll need charcoal (even with magma forges you need coke for steel). The wood can go surprisingly fast. They are an alternative (not sure to what, since it doesn't take long to have more stone than you know what to do with). Avoid heavy stone: cinnabar, cobaltite, pyrolusite, pitchblende, slade, hornblende. Flux stones are slightly heavier than average, but at any rate you should be making steel with them. Recommend excluding them from use unless you want them for their color. Again this is for pots, furniture shouldn't be hauled around the map constantly so build what you like. It might actually be worth keeping the stonecrafter supply seperate from the mason. Also if you still absolutely do care about weight and wood pots/barrels/bins, willow is a lighter common wood around water (since you are recomending a river embark) so you may want to reserve it.

Also it would be good to introduce new players to work orders and workshop profiles. The newer features added to both are very powerful and there isn't a lot of guidance. For example the craftshops can be restricted to a particular type (say stonecrafting). This will keep the manager jobs for woodcrafting from being assigned to the 1 linked to the stonepile. Otherwise you'll get a lot of cancellation spam or a crafter running from shop to shop if the inputs aren't linked. You can also now specify the material for most jobs (example make rock pots, then specify jet). http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158287.0 was a great discussion about work orders.

[Dunamisdeos]

I'll second the idea of storage across Z levels, especially for things that I like to stockpile like bars of metal or wood.

I always make a square and just make additional squares underneath. Saves lots of walking and horizontal space.

Also the only danger with a bridge is when it's lowered. They can be melted in that state, for instance.

[Leiker]

Wow, the new update is much more advanced than previous versions but still easy to follow for a relative noob like me.

I'm excited and i'm going to restart my fort and try this out.

I really like the Siege equipment stuff you got going, looks very fun and I am really looking forward to future installments of the guide
I'll try to do everything according to the guide and then I will let you know once I get to the end if I have any problems.

Edit:

Okay so I am following your guide now and already it plays MUCH better than previous iterations. Going for Still and Kitchen early is really helpful especially if you are a noob who mucks up and takes longer to do things than you are supposed to.

Im going to add a few observations here, more will come as I progress, ill just edit this post and add it.

a) In section 4 wood industry section one thing has me confused.
You have designated wheelbarrow and stepladder stockpiles twice. Both on the middle level (upper right room off the hallway) and the upper level (One of the left rooms)Is this intentional and if so, what is the reason?

b) In the stone industry section under the various stockpiles, can you explain the reason that you split up the various crafts in multiple piles? (figurines, earrings, rings, ect) Is there a reason to not just make one stockpile?

c) In the Stone industry, upper floor by the catapults. If you channel and remove the ramp to the upper most designated tile, can you still access the upper right most storage room? I seem to remember something about diagonals but I am not sure.

d) Is it on purpose you didnt mention trade depots? Its autumn now and I just realized I have no trade depot built.

e) Is there a reason to bother with seperating the Nest boxes of the peahens by a wall? Cant I just put a door at the entrence?

f) Currently building my first dinning hall as per your instructions. At the part about designating the prepared food stockpile infront of the dinning hall its a bit confusing because you say "Set the smaller stockpile to take from the larger one - it's placed at the entrance to the food quarter quite deliberately." which is a bit confusing because we havent actually set up the food stockpile you are refering to. At first I thought you ment the temporary kitchen stockpile that we created in one of the previous sections. But because I had followed your previous version of the guide I realized that you were probably refering to something upcoming.

g) Whats the point of toys? I built some as per your instructions and the children are playing with them, but after googling I cant seem to figure out what they do? Just another masocistic tendency?

h) Maybe I am stupid, but setting up the solid food stockpiles is confusing for a noob. This could be laid out in a more simple fashion I think. Right now the explanation of what to do and why to do it is kinda mixed together which makes it a bit confusing to get an overview. I had to read it several times to get it.
Furthermore, the fruit part in particular is confusing because you need to refer back to two lists at the same time. "any other growths for the species listed above" Better to have an exact list to refer to. I also dont see any Cacao fruit but that may just be me being blind.

i) Shouldnt the pots stockpile next to the still be set to take from the pots stockpile in the wood industry section?

----

Alright I believe thats enough DF for today, I played most of the day and I am tired now. Here is a quick recap:

Its early winter, I have played a full year and I just got to the plumbing part. I had two migrant waves and one Caravan. There have been no hostiles so far and no deaths. I messed up a few things along the way and had to redo some things so you could probably have gotten a little bit further if you had done everything correctly, though I think I am fairly representative of the type of person who would use your guide seeing as I am still very new to the game but know the basic controls. Everything was fairly easy to understand except for the few things I mentioned above. I find your guide very fun to follow and I am waiting for the next part eagerly.

Some things to consider:
Might be useful with a few words on what to get from the first Caravan. Could fit this in with explaining when to build trade depot since that seems to be missing from the new version of the guide. Ended up getting a few pieces of metal, some leather, some bags, quivers and waterskins and some gems. I traded some Spiked Wooden Balls as I heard they were good value (You'd probably consider it a cheesy strategy )

Might also be useful to instruct people to switch off fishing and related labors on new migrants, since we havent built a fishery yet. (You might have told people to do this already and I might have missed it)

Oh and I REALLY wish there was a way to name stockpiles. All those interconnected foodstuff stockpiles are confusing as HELL. If I mucked up somewhere along the way when designating those i'll probably never figure it out on my own.

Gonna try and see if I can do the rest of section 5 tomorrow.

[LtGreeneyes]

Quick note, I noticed somewhere in there that the spiral ramp had two different layouts. Not sure if it still does. One was based around the four-square, and the other was larger, once you started laying out the bigger chambers and floors.

[ldog]

Getting better. Still a bit much walking for haulers. I'm finding this with the alternate suggestion I made as well. I could just be spoiled by very high density workshop/QSP design and/or the fact that I've been playing in more mature forts (these are the first new embarks I've made in many moons) but hauling seems to be an awful bottleneck in this design.

Think you went a bit overboard with some of the stockpile splits (earring/bracelet/etc as opposed to general trade junk, sp for all 4 color plants instead of just dyes, etc). Olives/papyrus you're either going to have them or not, but you probably won't be able to trade for them. The catapults are an intriguing idea, and nice way to try to slip a stone semi-QSP under the radar (but seriously, I like it)

Again rock pots should be preferred over wood. Honestly wood crafting in general is just not Dwarfy! (you may need it for some musical instruments though).
Saguaro rib and willow should be added to the lightweight pile. Feather and candle while the best tend to be more rare than the other 2. I don't always use bins, but when I do I prefer them to be as light as possible.

The whole kitchen thing is of very debatable use for several reasons (some you've seen yourself). The dwarven syrup they just don't like to use. They are still going to grab stuff out of the barrel and even the seed stockpiles(and once you get large stocks of the underground crop seeds allowing cooking them is a good idea). The non-barrel pile is either going to be clogged and attracting more vermin or empty. You will just never find a happy medium for it. Nuts/misc seeds/unusable plants are going to give you nothing but headaches. For the most part it is NOT a bug, it's more an incomplete/inconsistent feature. What I would consider a bug is the herbalist will pick those useless plants and then insist on littering a stockpile with them (which has to do with how they will collect a mixed load of plants and drop them all at 1st stockpile that meets ANY of the criteria). Toady decided to get a little sophisticated with the newer plants, so some plants you only use their fruit, some their leaves, some seeds (nuts for example), root crops like onions/taters/beets are handled a bit funky, etc, etc. Some plants have multiple uses, some do not. I'd go with sugar over syrup if I find myself with too much rum and SP to spare. I've also just never found a need to do booze cooking with a meat industry (especially when my militia produces a lot of crundle meat)

Potash supply near farms should be larger and binless, set to restock. You NEVER want your farmer going more than a few steps from the fields when there is work to be done. While bins and job cancellations have improved over the years, I still see a lot of the same old stupid shit going on with them. 1x5 isn't a good size for farms. 2 bars per.  A 1x7 is also 2 bars. A 3x5 is 4. I know most optimum sizes for fertilizer aren't exactly convenient to work with. Granted potash is made from ash, which is made from wood. And we're talking about an operation done once per season, so it isn't the end of the world either. Again less PT, more DC. 1:1

Should think about where your sheep pasture is going to wind up. Soil layers, or even muddied floors will produce fungus once caverns are breached (which is why you still might want to quickly breach the caverns and then wall them off until you are ready) which makes indoor pasture and even tree farms something you can incorporate into your plan. Don't forget a bucket stockpile link for the farmers workshop you intend for milking.

It's also worth thinking about putting the dyers and looms near the farms. More so possibly than the dining room. Typically most will put them near the clothier (I know I have) but it's less hauling hauling just cloth than dye and thread. Bonecrafters near your butcher, but tanner can generally just as easily go by leatherworkers. A corpse only ever produces 1 hide, but much meat, bone, etc.

Don't leave temple/library/tavern as an after thought or you'll wind up with an ugly mess (like my 40.24 high eff fort). It's better to designate a temple sooner (but probably not before 1st caravan) rather than later. Library you'll need to furnish so don't need to build before ready. The tavern...so I've done the greathall/ tavern design. I highly recommend it over separation (just don't assign bartenders unless you want FUN!). Mugs will get stored in chests instead of stockpiles. Keeps all the food and booze in 1 place. More socialization (socialization used to be considered a bad thing, but that is really dated advice) & entertainment. Now doing it early or not depends if you want to attract freeloaders. You can assign (once they petition and you accept) mercs to a squad, and they function as normal soldiers more or less. Entertainers you can't assign anything, they just hang out in the tavern, so don't accept too many (or any). I've been trying it out lately, have mixed feelings. If you just aren't getting migrants the extra bodies can be useful, but they can't be repurposed, they also don't tend to come with much in the way of armor so you'll need to equip them like any other soldiers. Personally I'd also like to keep my Dwarven fortress...well Dwarven.

All in all, I think your guide is coming along nicely.

<snip>
c) In the Stone industry, upper floor by the catapults. If you channel and remove the ramp to the upper most designated tile, can you still access the upper right most storage room? I seem to remember something about diagonals but I am not sure.

e) Is there a reason to bother with separating the Nest boxes of the peahens by a wall? Cant I just put a door at the entrence?

c - You can. IIRC the only thing that can't be done across a diagonal is construction.
e- It's so you can more easily switch between breeding/egg collecting on a somewhat granular level without making yourself completely insane. If you are using DFHack you can just check the eggs fertility and forbid/unforbid them and lock/unlock the doors in between laying so you can put them all in 1 large room. Since Mixtrak is playing it vanilla, he is presenting the most viable strategy for vanilla. Although I would avoid building walls whenever you can, plan ahead and don't dig out where you want walls to be. Natural stone walls are better for several reasons - you can't unbuild them by accident, they can be smoothed/engraved for more value, and early game it's labor (when labor is really your most precious resource) that could be spent elsewhere.

Quick note, I noticed somewhere in there that the spiral ramp had two different layouts. Not sure if it still does. One was based around the four-square, and the other was larger, once you started laying out the bigger chambers and floors.

His original spiral ramp was designed around a 3-wide hallway, he has reduced that to 2-wide in his newer plan hence the discrepancy. I'll update the QF plans at some pointfor those who use them(by the way I also forgot about proceduraly generated monster meat/fat/tallow in the stockpile settings; anyone who uses those has to add their own since they are unique per world). If I'm feeling really ambitious I may even throw in furniture/stockpile QF plans as well.

[Dunamisdeos]

If I had to guess, I'd say the stockpile splits are to help with trading.

If you get a mayor that bans the export of rings, and some of your mixed bins contain rings, they will not show on the trade screen.

HOWEVER, you can turn off "Cull by Mandate" at that same screen. I think it's [ m ].