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[ldog]

If I had to guess, I'd say the stockpile splits are to help with trading.

If you get a mayor that bans the export of rings, and some of your mixed bins contain rings, they will not show on the trade screen.

HOWEVER, you can turn off "Cull by Mandate" at that same screen. I think it's [ m ].

Derp! Yeah good catch. I tend to not appoint a sheriff and ignore mandates so was totally bewildered by that.
Cull by mandate either ignores items in bins OR it will filter bins that contain otherwise non-contraband (I forget which, but for sure 1 or the other) so this would prevent that issue.
Once again bins are the evil perpetrator of yet another crime!

Oh, another thought on embark items. So right now I'm playing the most excellent 3 volcano world someone shared on reddit recently, which has almost everything one could wish for. The only flux is marble though, and it's deep down. Since I do play with DFHack and am not at all embarassed to use reveal/prospect I can of course plan things with a high degree of certainty, and of course it is no issue for me to go get it. For those of you not though, it could be a good while before you find your weapons grade metals (or even know if you have them) so it wouldn't be a bad idea taking a few malachite/cassiterite (5 each gets you 40 bronze, enough to outfit a few militia/make some more picks) and some coal. Also a couple pieces of quartzite or some other cheap magmaproof stone to make blocks out of right off the rip. Not a huge point outlay. Food for thought.

[Snafu]

g) Yeah, not much point to toys except as just another trade good and for kids to play with, though I'm not sure what benefits playing with a toy has

IIRC toys pre-train kids in that ability, but I may well be wrong, & it's usually not needed unless you're restricting yourself heavily (or luck out with migrants/civs)

[Leiker]

Ok, done updating my post above. Just saw there was a bunch of replies since posting it and wanted to let you know I added some more stuff to it.

I played all day so I am going to bed now (I'm in Europe)
Will read more tomorrow.

[ldog]

Ok, done updating my post above. Just saw there was a bunch of replies since posting it and wanted to let you know I added some more stuff to it.

I played all day so I am going to bed now (I'm in Europe)
Will read more tomorrow.

Oh and I REALLY wish there was a way to name stockpiles. All those interconnected foodstuff stockpiles are confusing as HELL. If I mucked up somewhere along the way when designating those i'll probably never figure it out on my own.

LNP users:
CTL+SHIFT+N
Like most convenience items; requires DFHack.

[ldog]

Since I'm running through it all from the top again, and also to maybe cut down on some of my ridiculously long posts...yeah, who am I kidding

Section 1 reread -
A single bag of gypsum will suffice, probably forever even. Same for the cloth and thread. 1 unit of goods becomes MANY units in the hospital. There's no excuse to not butcher the pack animals as soon as it's convenient, besides the usual useful stuff, initial thread for the hospital can be made from their hair in the farmers workshop. I realize "as soon as convenient" for a noob may be a while, but it at least bears a mention.

You forgot more seeds. Can cut the PH to 1 (for bag) since you'll get seeds from the ones you brought. Which should be brewed, not eaten! Silk is same price alternative to yarn. I'd up the booze a bit, around 90 total (the other 3 preferably) Meat/fish - I don't find the max barrels exploit worth bothering with but you want 4 types so you can make lavish meals out of whatever you bring. I tend to like 10 each. Properly managed this should get you to the 1st caravan even without an herbalist.

I'd change "Many other birds are also perfectly appropriate." to geese. Geese should be your plan B (my go to actually). You'll be cursing waves of migrants forcing the rest on you as pets in the years to come. Dogs/cats I can't say I've ever seen unavailable. Sheep rarely, but you've mentioned alpaca/llama.
LATE EDIT: Plan C. If you just want eggs (and some people may not want the framerate hit of a bunch of poultry running around, or the hassle of managing breeding) then just take a female or two, no males. They'll still lay eggs. I think turkeys are actually the winner for this route.

I mentioned the stone ores earlier.

The skills...so I've given a few embarks a chance. Still can't stomach the wood cutting, architecture, cooking, herbalism or especially woodcrafting as starters. Even mechanics. Still a fan of 1 discipline/1 swimming for everyone. So my noob friendly picks:
2x 5 miner
5 mason
5 carpenter , 1 judge of intent, 1 appraisal - make manager/broker/bookkeeper/CMD initially - reassess and reassign every migrant wave!
5 stonecrafter (alternately give this guy the carpenters other duties)
2x 5 planter

The 2 miners will be legendary by the end of the year, even if you started them with 0, but really, it's just hard to beat the speed you can get yourself underground and situated with that boost. My usual strat also involves far too much micro (even for someone advocating microing)

Masonry, carpentry and stonecrafting are something you are going to be doing a ton of your 1st year and the extra speed does help. It's also nice to be producing a bit higher quality of them from the start so later when you get anal about getting rid of anything less than exceptional quality it's that much less furniture to replace.

I elect the carpenter for the management jobs, as well as woodcutting, which is why I start him at 5 carpenter instead of 0. So he has time for his other duties. The initial run of the bookkeeper does put him out of pocket for some time. After that it is minimal. You can control when that happens, since until he gets an office he can't work.

Mason and stonecrafter (or the carpenter) get all the other jobs I need done as well (including mechanics & architecture). This is typically just until that 1st wave of migrants.

For the most part you want the planters doing nothing but planting and harvesting, in between they can do other crap (like hauling) but it pays to micromanage your labor in the early game. You also don't want to let them do any moodable skills, save 1 each (like having them make a piece of armor once you get that going and then disabling it again). I'd rather have 2 planters over 1 planter and 1 herbalist. I have found good grower migrants to be extremely rare, 2 protects you from 1 being busy. Granted if you can't get to farming for some reason you might have a tough time.

Why is woodcutter useless? because it seems to have no effect, levels up fast, and in all likelihood will be reassigned to some migrant.
Architecture - you need shit built now, not when your 1 architect gets around to it. While it's a nice idea to max building value it really doesn't ever seem practical.  I always always always have at least 4 dorfs with it enabled.
Cooking - same reasons as booze. Yes food has a quality level but it has little effect. Even 2 growers are going to be busy most of the time, 1 grower I wouldn't even consider to let him do anything but plant/harvest (that includes hauling).
Mechanics - it'd be nice, but it gets done in spurts...and I'd still rather have a lvl 5 armorer
Herbalism - I use it later when I get a migrant...FOR SUPPLEMENTAL CAVERN PLANTS...surface plant harvesting is a stockpile management nightmare. Doubly so early on when bags are at a premium. This is going to fuck up noobs in so many ways because...why I has no empty bags when I brought 10??? Over and over. I hate herbalism almost as much as I hate woodcrafting...
Woodcrafting - how do I hate thee, let me count the ways...so I got this great embark, other than the savagery the guide to the T...and I got lots and lots of trees...also lots of flux and iron near the surface....BUT...NO...FUCKING...COAL! And the magma is verrry deep here. So guess where all my spare wood is gonna be going for the foreseeable future? If you said wooden pots, do not pass go, do not collect $200...go directly to...a magma lake. Why? Because I really really really like steel. So there's charcoal to make. There's potash to make. We still need wooden beds and bins and other crap. Also wooden trade goods are about useless, (unless you want to piss off the damn hippies). You'll likely get several highly skilled woodcrafter migrants (because they are next to useless). Yes, you can always trade for a lot of wood easily if you run out. And a little bit of coal ore/charcoal. It gets to be a drag if you are dependent on it, I shit you not.

This is not just based on my pre-existing prejudices from playing the game a few years, but also from beta-testing your guide at each iteration. So I'm not talking about stuff that sucked years ago but might have been patched but wasn't...it's stuff that I've verified recently still sucks.

Sample profile. Note: I don't bring extra male animals because I use fix-ster. I also bring regular dogs and train them for war

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[PROFILE]
[TITLE:Sample]
[SKILL:1:MASONRY:5]
[SKILL:1:SWIMMING:1]
[SKILL:1:DISCIPLINE:1]
[SKILL:2:MINING:5]
[SKILL:2:SWIMMING:1]
[SKILL:2:DISCIPLINE:1]
[SKILL:3:CARPENTRY:5]
[SKILL:3:SWIMMING:1]
[SKILL:3:DISCIPLINE:1]
[SKILL:4:STONECRAFT:5]
[SKILL:4:SWIMMING:1]
[SKILL:4:JUDGING_INTENT:1]
[SKILL:4:APPRAISAL:1]
[SKILL:4:DISCIPLINE:1]
[SKILL:5:PLANT:5]
[SKILL:5:SWIMMING:1]
[SKILL:5:DISCIPLINE:1]
[SKILL:6:PLANT:5]
[SKILL:6:SWIMMING:1]
[SKILL:6:DISCIPLINE:1]
[SKILL:7:MINING:5]
[SKILL:7:SWIMMING:1]
[SKILL:7:DISCIPLINE:1]
[ITEM:2:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_PICK:INORGANIC:COPPER]
[ITEM:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_BATTLE:INORGANIC:COPPER]
[ITEM:1:ANVIL:NONE:INORGANIC:IRON]
[ITEM:1:DRINK:NONE:PLANT_MAT:MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP:DRINK]
[ITEM:30:DRINK:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_WHEAT_CAVE:DRINK]
[ITEM:30:DRINK:NONE:PLANT_MAT:POD_SWEET:DRINK]
[ITEM:15:SEEDS:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_TAIL_PIG:SEED]
[ITEM:15:SEEDS:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_WHEAT_CAVE:SEED]
[ITEM:15:SEEDS:NONE:PLANT_MAT:POD_SWEET:SEED]
[ITEM:15:SEEDS:NONE:PLANT_MAT:BUSH_QUARRY:SEED]
[ITEM:15:SEEDS:NONE:PLANT_MAT:MUSHROOM_CUP_DIMPLE:SEED]
[ITEM:10:FISH:NONE:LOBSTER_CAVE:FEMALE]
[ITEM:15:PLANT:NONE:PLANT_MAT:MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP:STRUCTURAL]
[ITEM:30:DRINK:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_TAIL_PIG:DRINK]
[ITEM:1:SEEDS:NONE:PLANT_MAT:MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP:SEED]
[ITEM:10:MEAT:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:COW:MUSCLE]
[ITEM:10:MEAT:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:GOAT:MUSCLE]
[ITEM:10:FISH:NONE:FISH_CAVE:FEMALE]
[ITEM:5:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:LYE:NONE]
[ITEM:5:CLOTH:NONE:CREATURE_MAT:SPIDER_CAVE:SILK]
[ITEM:5:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:QUARTZITE]
[ITEM:7:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:COAL_BITUMINOUS]
[ITEM:3:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:CASSITERITE]
[ITEM:3:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:MALACHITE]
[ITEM:12:POWDER_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:SAND_TAN]
[ITEM:1:POWDER_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:PLASTER]
[PET:2:DOG:FEMALE:STANDARD]
[PET:2:DOG:MALE:STANDARD]
[PET:1:CAT:MALE:STANDARD]
[PET:2:SHEEP:FEMALE:STANDARD]
[PET:1:SHEEP:MALE:STANDARD]
[PET:2:PIG:FEMALE:STANDARD]
[PET:1:PIG:MALE:STANDARD]
[PET:1:BIRD_GOOSE:FEMALE:STANDARD]
[PET:1:BIRD_GOOSE:MALE:STANDARD]


[ldog]

Section 2 -

Checking for threats - all the more reason I like discipline 1 on everyone; in case they need to fight. For the most part in the recommended embark you should be ok, but I have had the odd weak stuff that still needed to be dealt with. Keas in particular are a nuisance since they can fly off with your anvil (it's happened to me). Also don't recommend deconstructing the wagon right away; get an underground temporary stockpile setup first. Have your carpenter go chop a tree. If you listened to me you brought some stone for initial workshops. I prefer building some right next to wagon to get some stuff done while waiting for miners and then deconstruct them. Stuff is better off in the wagon than on the ground on the surface.

Also since I bring regular dogs, the initial pasture gets train animals turned on. Everyone not a miner or woodcutter trains a dog. It takes almost no time. Miners go mine. Woodcutter chops a tree.

So with your no barrel food pile the mix food setting is kinda irrelevant. Otherwise I like to use this too.
Outside vermin? No. What undead risk? You didn't go in an evil biome or near a tower. Ain't nobody got time fo'dat! Besides you are storing refuse on the surface at the moment anyway so this isn't effective.
Personally I like auto-loom dyed cloth and only use dyed cloth.

I'm a big fan of the central stairwell in the center of the map. An easier way to count is go to D(ig) mode, shift-scroll (that moves you 10 tiles each time) all the way to an edge, shift-scroll back 9 times, then count 5 over, mark. Do this from the bottom/top then. Now that you've got the center marked, you may realize if your embark is not flat this may not work. Instead of moving the ramp off center for the entire map, just modify the upper layer(s) a bit. For example you may be near a cliff edge. By all means then dig a short tunnel (this is even preferable since you can put the bridge door right there), even if it has to loop back. Just make sure it is 3 wide in all places. Speaking of the bridge door, if you make it 3x2 it only costs 1 more block, but you have a good visual indicator- if it is 2 wide it is open, 1 wide closed. That may just save you an "OH SHIT!" moment or 3 someday. I'd also go right for the 3 wide channel to prevent congestion, if you can't get it sealed off quickly enough that it makes a difference you are probably going to have FUN! anyway.

For the refuse pile you actually want to turn off most item types. Just the stuff that causes miasma (rotten food and hide). Worn stuff (like clothing) is good to sell or smelt (like metal goods). Also clothing that goes into a refuse pile starts wearing out very fast. It sucks when that happens by accident.

The surface stockpile. yeah, don't like it. For reasons I said above. Better to even start making little piles in the stairwell. Food is priority uno! Also keep the seeds separate, you don't want them going into barrels. I like to get the PH brewed and the meat cooked pronto, so I build a temp kitchen and still even earlier than you recommend (like next to the wagon if I feel safe). The time spent waiting for the miners is better spent getting initial stuff you need crafted than moving it from the wagon only to have to move it again if you ask me. Depending how the digging is going/how dangerous the locals seem, I may even butcher, tan and cook the pack animals now while there is little else to do.

I'd rather get the bridge and 3 mechanisms done right off the rip instead of arsing with the hatches as well. Again if you can't do this quickly enough you probably had no chance anyway. Even playing in a savage embark near a tower I've not had any major trouble until winter in the newer versions.

And that's all for tonight.

[ldog]

Section 3-
Other than the fact that I will continue to hate on wood pots as long as you continue to recommend them, this section is pretty solid.
Not much to say. I already mentioned the wider bridge earlier, which would still work here. Just need to move the dogs down a level.
It might not be a bad idea to put the bridge on the level just above the "central" level. I'm seeing that were-creatures may get pretty close before they are announced. The dogs on the upper level should hopefully keep it entertained long enough for you to get the door shut, even with delays.

When disabling hauling and what not,  leave lever pulling enabled on everyone (maybe more a tip for DT users since it is grouped there).
Levers can also be named, same way as stockpiles, again vanilla players are SOL.
Also when you assign the lever pull task, you can hit n(ow) which makes it a priority for someone to go do it.

A small thing, but I think as the guide is getting bigger a previous/next page link, or at least a return to index somewhere would be convenient.

[ldog]

Sections 4 & 5 - Together since I jump back and forth. Being as I opted for 2 planters and no herbalist, I prioritize getting the farms done sooner. I get pretty granular with controlling the order of mining. Main level large rooms are done but no entire wing is finished. I setup temp shops wherever and tear them down. Mid-Hematite? (I think...whatever the 4th month is) and the farm is ready to be flooded. I like to get the birds nested early as well, because it means that much sooner they are laying. I screwed up and didn't get them underground and this is a heavily treed embark, so they are hanging out in the trees as birds like to do. I'm going to have to cut the trees down to get them out...Barring any FUN! I expect to have the entire complex done (as far as the guide goes anyway) before the end of the Summer.

No major issues with 4. Again hatred for wood pots. The 2 corner tiles don't need to be channeled by the way, siege engines don't have a large FoF. I wouldn't advise making training weapons ever for any reason (most advice related to using them is outdated...soldiers won't injure each other training with real weapons, also the last thing you want them doing is getting attached to 1...I don't tend to use a lot of weapon traps so I don't know if they are useful there, if so and that was your intent then disregard, but seriously don't even think about issuing them to your militia), so unneeded stockpile there (a small minecart stockpile might be a good idea though). Most of the other stuff has been discussed. The lightweight woodpile for carpenter is a mixed bag...it complicates manager job setups a bit, although if you do them all from recurring tasks you can restrict to specific shops at least. It's big headache for jobs made on the fly though. The large wheelbarrow/stepladder pile is probably unnecessary, you only need a few ladders at most and the majority of your wheelbarrows will wind up assigned to piles. Speaking of wheelbarrows, seperate corpse from general refuse pile is a good idea, and assign some wheelbarrows; corpses are heavy. Making toys early probably not the best use of your time (this was oversight from 3 I think) also do note that most small finished goods are made 3 per order, so queing 10 mugs/10 toys will get you 30 of each. Recommend excluding artifacts from all piles with bins (finished goods mainly) to save aggravation later.

5 - where do I start...this is FUN waiting to happen...way too granular on the stockpiles, a few years in when the fort is well established this might work, but for now nothing good gonna come of it (and I still think it's needlessly complicated...a kitchen supply pile and an "all plants with any other use" are all I have ever used). Until you get a good stock of booze and food, that is where it all needs to go, so the stockpile links are a non-starter. Already made some comments prior to playthrough about the kitchen stockpile disaster. Again 2 tiles per seed is good, would make the fertilizer 3x3 and no bins.

Harvest time is grab plant, put in stockpile, grab seed, replant. So the closer the plant and seed stockpiles are to the farms the better. Especially if you're going with 1 grower. When you've got a few legendary grower it won't be as big a deal, but growing is one of the slowest skills to level up.

Don't forget the bags stockpiles (although you've left room for them). You need bags for QB leaves as well as mill/press.  I probably wouldn't give the quern and screwpress their own rooms either. Good time to mention for the new kids, quarry bush plant gets bagged in farmers workshop. Bagged leaves go into kitchen stockpile. You'll also get a loose leaf or 2 every tile harvested, which will go (via farmer hauling it) directly into the kitchen pile from the field. I know I had a lot of confusion until I learned that, and it's probably something one would overlook in the wiki. Rock nut/presscake/oil is another headache, but read the wiki.

Still curious to see where you're going to fit in the remaining industry, especially butchering/fishery & bonecrafts. I like to keep this close to the kitchen, which you haven't really allowed for. I'm a bit sceptical fitting smelter/forge in 1 layer under the masons but we'll see...the catapult drop may be its saving grace though. And at least there'll be room for magma. I had some old stockpile systems for the smelters that were "decent"...have to see if I can find them. Still this is the place where stockpile link fuckups and clogging and job cancelation spam finally made me go QSP. It is not for the weak.

We touched on the chickencoop a bit, needs to be bigger in my experience, although you may get a lot less hatchlings with this method than I usually do (which might be a good thing actually...I've usually got a geesesplosion going on most of the time). I also don't think they form mated pairs, unless it was changed (and it might have, I kinda remember some discussion on it) a male being anywhere on the map could fertilize any females.

You didn't get to barracks & militia yet, but another seemingly little known fact these days - marksdorfs barracks set to store squad equip, with some coffers. As bolts are allocated to a squad they will get hauled into the coffers will prevent a lot of headaches/blaming bugs that don't exist anymore. I don't know if the bolts in bins in storage piles is still an issue, I think it might be fixed but haven't verified it myself. Also training/combat ammo finally has been fixed, so feel free to assign bone bolts for training and metal bolts for combat.

[ldog]

So autumn has arrived without major incident and we're all done with the guide again. Just digging out the last few areas (that didn't have anything designated yet). Will put this fort aside til next guide installment (or maybe just fork it) so that'll be all the spam from me for now <and the DF community sighed in relief>

Found a small error in 4 - wheelbarrows have a category, it's stepladders that fall under "other large tools"

So after going on and on about never getting skilled farmers, what does my first migrant wave have...a high master farmer (although of course he is a decent marksdorf too) and for shits and giggles RNJ threw me a lvl 11 siege operator/decent swordsdorf! (that was just too funny to me with the new plans including siege engines) and of course 2 other useless sods, with a cavy boar pet (gelded his ass).

Put in the depot. For the people in suspense until Mixtrak tells you where to put it I'd suggest the corner (there is only 1 where it will fit, but depends on the ramp orientation that level) of the large ramp room.

Also if going with all the food stockpiles in 5, disable barrels in most of them until you need them. Otherwise each pile is going to uselessly suck up an empty barrel and you need your early barrels for booze!

When you slaughter your pack animals, make sure to go to the kitchen and deselect at least 1 kind of tallow to reserve it for your initial soap (you'll likely want some soap before you get around to pressing oil).

1 miner is legendary, the other is a slacker with most of a level to go. The crafters are all expert (. Farmers didn't get to level (and we got the new highly skilled one) although we got our first harvest of pig tail and cave wheat in before the end of summer. Booze supply wasn't critical yet (still had over 100....brewing the initial 15 PH instead of eating them really helps here...but I also brought an extra 30 units of booze as well, so we'd have just about ran out otherwise), but we were down to 11 meals so just slaugthered the horse and yak. Meat is back on the menu boys! I didn't get any geese hatchlings yet cause of the fuckup there, which is gonna delay my meat and hides program half a year but it's not the end of the world.

So all in all I am in very good shape here. Time to start getting some crap valuable goods ready for the caravan, build a hospital and well, get the other industries setup, do a little cleaning, and get to making glorious steel!

[Maul_Junior]

......with a cavy boar pet (gelded his ass).

I don't think you QUITE understand the concept of gelding.

LNP users:
CTL+SHIFT+N
Like most convenience items; requires DFHack.

.........

sadflsadkf;sjaf;sadklfjasd;lkfjas;dfklsjajfds;fkldja;fklasdjf;sadklfja;fkldsjafs

I NEED THIS IN MY LIFE SAVE!

*converts Notes info Named Levers*

[ldog]

......with a cavy boar pet (gelded his ass).

I don't think you QUITE understand the concept of gelding.

LOL!

So anyways, ran it into winter, since there was a lot of hauling to be done anyway. Only got 2 migrants for the fall which kinda sucks, but a lvl 6 armorer so that's a plus. Debating the rest of the layout as we wait to see what Mixtrak has planned. So I do want to share a high-eff checkerboard hospital design. If your layout matches the guide (rotate as needed otherwise) I'd recommend the lower right 5x5 for the hospital and the 3x3 under it for the well (I'm guessing this is where he had them planned).

Code: [Select]

HBRBH
BTBTB
RBHBR
BTBTB
HBRBH
Placement keys for codes, H=Coffer, B=Bed, R=Traction Bench, T=Table
This gives you 12 beds, all adjacent to a table & bench. 5 coffers is excessive, I've never found the need for more than 2, but I tend to leave stock settings at default. Don't feel the need to put 5 coffers (hell I've never really found the traction bench necessary, but it's always good to have options).
A little trick when you build the hospital, if you took my advice and butchered the pack animals and spun thread from their hair (it's not useful for anything else) then forbid all your other thread, temporarily drop the thread count in hospital settings to 0 and then add a click for every thread, wait for it to be stocked. Now set it back to the default 75000 (which is actually 5 pieces of thread, or 15k each) and unforbid your other thread now. So you'll have a good supply of thread for a while (each pack animal is good for 7-9). By the time the stocks drop back below threshold you should be doing well enough to not care what kind of thread they grab (barring adamantine).

Also recommend a couple more floodgates close in. 1 right before the stairs down to the farms (my water main is like 100 tiles long since the brook only runs through a corner) there's no way to get enough water into far room without massive flood of near one otherwise. Also if you tap off the main then the tile before that (so 3 back from X) you can run the pipe north for the well supply later without hassle.

It's also not a bad idea to have a drain(s) at the lower levels in case you need to make modifications to your plumbing later, or just screwup badly somewhere and start flooding the place. A tunnel to the edge of the map, then smooth and fortify (has to be stone) lets water leave the map. It also doesn't count as an entrance for monsters to swim into (because there isn't an incoming water tile off the map at that spot).

[ldog]

I'd like to share another piece of crappy ASCII art, a tavern-friendly dining hall design:

Code: [Select]

BBBBBBBBBBB
BBBBBBBBBBB
BBBBBBBBBBB
BBBBBBBBBBB
CTTCHHHCTTC
CTTC---CTTC
CTTC---CTTC
CTTC---CTTC
CTTC---CTTC
CTTC---CTTC
CTTC---CTTCB=Booze stockpile 4x11, C=chair, T=table,H=coffer,-=empty space/musical instruments
Assuming you throw a row of constructed instruments in, this leaves you a 5x3 dancefloor.

 So a bit more playing, since I am enjoying this fortress (and I keep seasonal backups so can always revert when the guide gets updated) we're into the next spring, which brought us 21 migrants. For the most part their skills aren't exciting, although we got a 6 weaponcrafter, 13 leatherworker, 10 woodcrafter, most of the other high level skills are mundane crap (cheesemaker, bee & wax, glazing, etc) but a fairly good mix of low level moodables, a few decent military (and really most everyone has decent stats), a smattering of medical skills - so all in all a pretty decent lot.

 I had some fuckup on getting the depot built, had to remove and rebuild, and I didn't realize til the carvan was about to leave. I did get 1 wagon in, but they were very wait contrained so I couldn't unload a lot of garbage on them. Of course I have some "ghost" possessions on the map now. Never had this issue before 43.03, but it seem to happen with distressing frequency. Whatever, it's mostly an annoyance on the stocks screen. So was able to trade for their leather and a few other choice items. Leather is important since we'll need quivers, water skins and backpacks for our militia and we won't be producing much for a year. Also as I have no coal for coke on this map (I hate relying on charcoal) I offered max price on coal & lignite stone and coke bars.

 Breached & quickly walled 1st cavern. I haven't decided where the indoor pasture is going so there was no rush, but another side effect I noticed on the volcano embark - I was trying a lot of different layouts and savescumming through winter, which consistently brought werenasties (savage environs) until I breached the caverns and then I got FB every time. Being I closed the breach, a FB that can't get to you beats werepanthers (or worse, since there's a tower in range of that one too).

Other than that fall and winter passed fairly uneventfully. I built the hospital and well, dug a jet deposit and made a fuckton of pots. Some furniture, lots of booze. More PH than I care to brew right now even. Also didn't realize I had a jack of all trades in 2nd wave with 1 farming and didn't turn it off. He made level 3 already, so maybe training up an unskilled farmer isn't so bad with this fort design.

Not a lot else got done since the labor was short until now. With the new migrant wave I started digging down to the magma which is at like -16 (main fort is 127) So yeah we've got a lot of ramps to dig, would probably be better off with a stairwell but want to see how it goes. Miners lvl 20. I'm not going to have a pump stack done anytime soon, but I like magma forges ASAP (doubly so with no coal) so we'll go with the tried and true hauling it up by steel minecart and dumping it. It's slow (realtime) and painful and micromanagement intensive, but it'll take far more gametime and dwarfpower to get the pumpstack built and there's more important stuff to do (besides it's cheaper to make all the glass pump parts with a magma forge).

As we're getting the forges going we'll also start getting the other military equipment ready. Need to assign a bonecrafter and get him to making bolts for practice, start getting the rest of the trades going. I've already got over 600 ale so summer crop of pigtails will start going to thread. Once again quality of life things from DFHack, combine-plants and combine-drinks scripts does maximize storage, since we get stacks of 12 and pots of 60 booze, bags of 60 QBL/12 dye - and right now every bag counts.

We'll likely see the summer migrant wave as well before the forges are churning out armor & weapons, so I might be fielding a full squad of each (infantry & xbow) right off the rip. Certainly by fall if I get another 2 big waves. Iron & flux we didn't need to go out of our way for, they were conveniently in the center of the map, and on the levels we dug. Steel weapon/shield/helm/gaunts/boots/mail/BP/greaves for every soldier. Akur akir akam!

And the blacksmith mooded. I had a moment of panic because I hadn't smelted anything (Forgot I happened to trade for a gold bars), then another moment of panic because I also hadn't converted the small stock of coal I brought into coke or made charcoal (but then I also forgot forging artifacts are beard powered!) and I got...a gold...splint...yes...an artifact gold splint Even a crutch would have been cooler. At least I got a legendary blacksmith now.

Summer just turned and going to bed. We're nearly to the magma now. I'm seeing some wierdness. I thought it was just because of there being not enough haulers, but now with 32 and getting idlers something is definitly wrong. All the barrel and pot piles are full. I started adding barrels back to regular piles and they aren't being taken. I've seen food get stored in rock pots just fine, and there's plenty of wood barrels as well. Brewing is working fine. Turned off the reserve. Still they aren't putting food in barrels. Never seen this happen before. Also the wheelbarrows aren't being taken.

[ldog]

So the catapult thing isn't working out so hot. As you noted, you can't give to a catapult and the dumbasses are going downstairs and grabbing stone from the masonry stockpile (and I do mean the actual masonry stone supply pile, not the properly locked up catapult drop zone) so the whole thing turns into a big circle jerk.

I also find a new (old) reason to despise bins every day it seems. So the binless goblets stockpile near the dining room is lower priority than the binned one in masonry. Even after force dumping a bunch of goblets into it, they wind up back in the masonry wing. I haven't switched the dining hall to tavern mode yet though, which hopefully alleviates the problem. The 3x3 will make an office for someone.

Found out that hatch covers over ramps will make wagon inaccessible (and here I thought it was a good idea for extra security). So you'll need to rely on bridges alone for security on intended caravan paths.

Oh, and I forgot about the ability to restrict workshops from general work orders (manager screen created) and still use ones created off the shop directly (with appropriate repeating triggers) so the very specialized setups could be workable after all.

[Dunamisdeos]

So the catapult thing isn't working out so hot. As you noted, you can't give to a catapult and the dumbasses are going downstairs and grabbing stone from the masonry stockpile (and I do mean the actual masonry stone supply pile, not the properly locked up catapult drop zone) so the whole thing turns into a big circle jerk.

I also find a new (old) reason to despise bins every day it seems. So the binless goblets stockpile near the dining room is lower priority than the binned one in masonry. Even after force dumping a bunch of goblets into it, they wind up back in the masonry wing. I haven't switched the dining hall to tavern mode yet though, which hopefully alleviates the problem. The 3x3 will make an office for someone.

Found out that hatch covers over ramps will make wagon inaccessible (and here I thought it was a good idea for extra security). So you'll need to rely on bridges alone for security on intended caravan paths.

Oh, and I forgot about the ability to restrict workshops from general work orders (manager screen created) and still use ones created off the shop directly (with appropriate repeating triggers) so the very specialized setups could be workable after all.

Can you have them man the catapults then lock the doors behind them? Then their only option will be the stockpile in the same room.

[ldog]

I finally figured out my mysterious barrel issue; the merchants bug.
So I took a gander through the barrels in stocks and lo and behold a bunch of forbidden off-screen barrels were designated for piles. Forbid them and food piles started taking barrels again. This has never happened to me before 40.3 but it's like clockwork. I swear I'm ready to go back to 40.24!

Ready to start hauling magma up, still debating forge/smelter organization for the limited space, as well as where to put the glassworks and kiln. I've typically ran with 4 smelters and 2 forges in the past, but really more would be better. Also a tip for glass/kiln, keep a single non-magma version of each, forbid everything except collect sand/clay from them. Setup collection orders on them directly, when stock gets below say 10 (or whatever size stockpile you use). Temporarily built a glassworks under carpenter (along with ashery/soaper) to get the 2 sets of initial glass pump parts needed for magma hauling ops. They may wind up there on a permanent basis.

I ended up putting the dyer/loom/clothier/leatherworker on upper NW quad. Seperate piles for dye/thread/cloth/leather. Leather in bins doesn't seem to cause issues, but cloth causing a lot of cancellation. I don't dare put the thread in bins too. Bags get a 5x5 that feeds the 3x3 on main. The other 3 rooms for clothes/etc.

Basement did butcher/tanner/bonecrafter/farmers (for milk/cheese/shearing/spinning). Siderooms went to geese, pigs, bone bolts, bone everything else. Unless I fuckup and run out of storage space I've never had miasma issues with an indoor butcher. Trash incinerator will go in somewhere soon since I'm about to start hauling magma up.

The fishery went into a spare 5x5 near kitchen - fish seem to go bad quicker, but same as butcher otherwise. The original henhouse gets the inevitable other poultry that showup as pets and goes exclusively egg production.

I stuck a couple jewelers on the main level of the remaining quad. Gems around them, just cause I was tired of them all over the place. The other rooms - I already talked about hospital and well. The last 3 are library, temple (moved from depot) and a barracks. Debating if I will build surface barracks or not. I tend to just let them go cave adapted - I mitigate it by digging out a fairly large killzone ( https://df-walkthrough.readthedocs.io/en/latest/chapters/chap09-end.html#chapter09 will give you ideas) and holding my battles there. A noteworthy thing about fortifications, enemies that get next to them even several Z levels below can shoot through them normally, not really sure if it's been acknowledged as a bug, let alone fixed. Considering this is actually a forest embark and I have no coal, I may maintain firm surface control for a change. It's also not a bad idea to make your regular main entrance pass through a barracks anyway; for thieves and the odd interloper you don't need to go to lockdown. It just turned Autumn again and I've yet to have an invader, which is good cause I still got no militia and haven't bothered to set up any traps. I may cut future embarks to 1 grower and put a dedicated mechanic in, for pure speed. I can hole up if something wicked this way comes, but where's the fun in that.

Made some paper and scrolls. Also not a streamlined process here. Pig tails (and yeah, I already got PT coming out my ass, even with just 2 seasons rotation) go to quern, then press. Rollers need to be made and then combined in craftshop. You need to link some things you don't otherwise think about. Making traction benches is another thing I always forget til repeated cancelations - you linked stone to your mechanic, well now you need to link tables, mechanisms, rope/chain piles as well. Musical instruments, which is a painful mess to begin with (why they needed to be procedurally generatated is beyond me) is going to need some untangling.

Since I'm producing exceptional/master stone/wood/leather regularly already, I broke down and put a "junk" auto trade QSP next to the depot. Between the limited stockpiles and my anal-ness about getting rid of the crap, it's just easier to never let the stuff into the main piles. 2 years old and these https://www.reddit.com/r/MechGuides/ are still the definitive guides to QSP for the curious. The minecart stop/hauling route works like a champ. Mixtrak will be disappointed but I'll likely go with the same for ore/bars - anything else is just a major fucking hassle and headache of job cancellation spam.

So the catapult thing isn't working out so hot. As you noted, you can't give to a catapult and the dumbasses are going downstairs and grabbing stone from the masonry stockpile (and I do mean the actual masonry stone supply pile, not the properly locked up catapult drop zone) so the whole thing turns into a big circle jerk.

Can you have them man the catapults then lock the doors behind them? Then their only option will be the stockpile in the same room.

Yeah, a hatch over the stairwell...I thought about it. Don't know if it's worth the bother. Siege engines were another one of those things I tried when I was a noob and said "meh". Originally I was thinking this would be cool for getting all the stone consolidated like a QSP (cause I really do hate stone all over the place). If you  care about training SO it's probably worth doing. Could also forbid all the stone downstairs, just can't do any stonework at same time (make the mason, mechanic and stonecrafter SO maybe?)