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Author Topic: Hypothetical: What do you do? (What if you had the cure for cancer)  (Read 44135 times)

Frumple

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Re: Hypothetical: What do you do? (What if you had the cure for cancer)
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2017, 10:24:37 pm »

I feel like most of the people (Loud Whispers excluded) here forget that you have to prove that your cure actually cures cancer before anyone believes a word out of your damn mouth.
Completely irrelevant to the primary reason you immediately back up and disseminate the information necessary to create the cure to as many places as possible, in whatever format is easiest to continue to propagate. Point of as immediate as possible and public publishing is entirely so there's little to no chance mankind loses it. You can work out the rest of it once it's in several dozen different servers and it's not going to functionally disappear if you get hit by a truck or some shit while you're working on whatever step 3 is.

Seriously, most of the folks talking about trials and testing appear to be forgetting they're holding a cure to goddamn cancer in their hands in this scenario, and so far as they're aware the sole copy thereof. You don't squirrel that shit away while you're trying to convince people it works, you make as many copies as you can and put them in as many places as you can and worry about the rest once losing the original doesn't mean losing it entirely. You can't convince friggin' anyone you have a cure if the information burns up in a house fire and whatever physical backups you have go to pot for whatever reason. One backup isn't enough for something like that. Several isn't, either. Several dozen spread across the globe and you're getting where you probably should be for something that important.
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Azzuro

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Re: Hypothetical: What do you do? (What if you had the cure for cancer)
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2017, 02:13:59 am »

2edgy4u answer: destroy the all the cures, the documentation and all evidence that it ever existed. Cancer's most significant risk factor is age, and it's the leading cause of death in the developed world (admittedly second in developing countries). If you publish the cure, life expectancy will shoot up, but primarily in the first world, leading to worsening global income inequality between the longer-lived upper class with higher incidence of cancer versus the shorter-lived lower class, who still suffer from malaria, tuberculosis, pneumonia et al.

That's not even considering the fact that we're heading toward climate catastrophe, and increasing life expectancy inevitably means increasing consumption and pollution drastically, possibly enough to counteract all our climate accords so far (the vast majority of which are measured per capita and thus near-useless if life expectancy and thus population growth were to increase drastically). You could argue that people living longer means that they'll be more concerned with the future state of the world, but attitudes among the baby boomers show otherwise.
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IcyTea31

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Re: Hypothetical: What do you do? (What if you had the cure for cancer)
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2017, 02:40:02 am »

PTW
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Hypothetical: What do you do?
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2017, 09:33:14 am »

New Hypothetical Situation.
You, and only you have access to a specific machine.
The machine will permanently remove major obstacles to human civilization, but for a price.
The options are
1. - permanently remove the ability for diseases to develop antibiotic resistances (and remove all current medical resistances)
2. - humanity is provided with an infrastructure system and detailed schematics for the building and operation of fusion power generation plants.
3. - Remove all national distinctions and cultural tensions (unite the world)
Each option you choose will result in the spontaneous death of 1/3 of the world's population. (you are excluded)
You may substitute your life in payment for one of the options.
No one will ever know about your access to the machine and the decisions you make.
1. Gods no, if the implication is that evolution ceases to be
2. While this is objectively the best option, I am concerned that the spontaneous death of 1/3rd the world's population would actually do more damage than fusion power would do in benefit. Humanity can deal with 1/3 of the population dying, but 1/3rd the world population dying at random all across the world? There's a fair chance of everything going completely tits up with world leaders, scientists and vital infrastructure personnel just up and dropping in what the doom prophets would be jumping to call rapture as the third world war begins amidst the chaos.
3. I would not sacrifice national distinctions just to alleviate cultural tension, I would certainly not do so at the cost of billions of human souls. Substituting my life in payment for option 2 would be the logical decision, however I am concerned that the machine may not be sincere in delivering its promise. How would I know for example, that the machine will not simply kill me and deliver none of its promises?

Here's a new hypothetical:
You have a briefcase. It appeared on your bed(or equivalent) this morning, out of nowhere. In the briefcase are 5 vials, a million dollars, and a note.
The note explains that you've been chosen to prepare humanity for the impending apocalypse. In 5 years, an alien invasion will begin. You're expected to mobilize and unite humanity to be as ready as possible for this threat, the nature of which is currently unknown to you.
The note also explains that the vials grant psionic powers to anybody that drinks one, drinking a second will temporarily supercharge one's powers to the point of being a one-man army, but a third will be lethal.
What do?
The first thing I would do is collect four companions, together we five would form the illuminati, with a combined warchest of one million dollars with each individual drinking one of the vials. In this manner we would maximize the psionic output per vial, assuming of course whatever is in the vial cannot be replicated (because otherwise this may turn into "I wish for unlimited wishes"). Between the five of us, maintaining communication through regular psionic meetups with our Grand Illuminator/Commander (I imagine selecting who our GI would be would be a rather simple case of electing the individual with the best communication and psionic potential). The four delegated Illuminators would thereupon be tasked with recruiting members to their factions in North America, Europe, East Asia and Southern Asia, which would allow the four delegated Illuminators to concentrate their efforts on dominating in the shortest time the largest population of the most influential Earthlings. Within five years, domination of majority of the public is unlikely, but domination of the elite is far more achievable. The Prime Illuminator themself would not look for any specific geographical locale, but would instead begin construction of an evil lair the most fortified and concealed position on planet Earth, wherein they would place themselves as the future nexus of human resistance. Designation: Queen's Nest

Thereafter we shall unleash the news through the media, through the world's leaders and astronomers all concluding the dire truth: We are not alone in the Universe, and we are all the more imperiled for it. Push for the United Nations to declare world martial law (we would have to set a few precedents without regard to sovereignty or international law) and mobilize doomsday paramilitary groups to begin fortifying all of their abodes whilst moving from the cities into the mountains, hills, innwds, with guns, ammunition, water and food to last. Millions would die in the chaos, this would be a useful time to weed out all opponents to the Illuminati, thereupon ensuring the alien invasion is met with a unified Earthling command. Also at this point focus all the world's economies available to us into total war economies, unifying all military secrets, technologies and production lines to create the largest human war machine mankind has ever made. The foundations for this would all have to be done within 6-12 months, giving us at least 3-4 years to give time for the massive reorganization of mankind towards war.

Leaving much of the macro and micro scale preparations to the best talented generals and ministers we have available, all efforts would be focused upon three grand strategic principles:
*Rendering all of human civilization battle-ready for the destruction that is to ensue. Being invaded by an extragalactic enemy force, it is unlikely humankind has many weapons capable of damaging the aliens. That is irrelevant, as we do not know what the capabilities of the aliens are or what their objective is. If they have come to conquer, exterminate or harvest, humans hunkered down and spread all over the world will inevitably be harder to destroy than unprepared humans residing in urban clusters. This will buy humankind more time for specialists to learn of the aliens and develop countermeasures, cyber, biological, radiological, psychological, kinetic, strategic - and so on, all doctrines from all mankind if given enough time will be able to discern how the aliens work, why they are invading and how to combat them. The initial assault whereupon it is unlikely that humankind will be able to inflict any damage upon the invader whilst they in turn are assaulted by orbital aliens will be the most devastating period, where human morale may be shattered. If we can get humankind to survive this phase, our chances of reaching parity and victory with the aliens increases drastically.
*Militiarizing outer space for the first time. It is unlikely that humankind's first warships will be anything quality compared to the aliens, but their sacrifices in orbit will provide us with valuable information regarding the aliens' capabilities in preparation for their first planetary assault. Moreover, the development of international military aeronautical infrastructure will be of paramount importance to bringing the fight to the aliens if we are capable of reverse engineering their warships.
*Formulating doomsday devices. Relativistic weapons that can destroy the aliens' homeworlds, in addition to doomsday devices that can destroy all of planet Earth. The briefcase has informed us the aliens are invading, when it stands to reason that if they wanted to exterminate us they could just destroy our planet. Evidently they want something on the planet or they want possession of the planet itself, thus if we can threaten to destroy it it can buy us valuable time or force the aliens to the negotiating table.

After the preparatory years are over, I would have our Prime World Leader representative send a message to the aliens declaring that we have expected them for a long time and thus have made adequate preparations. Thereupon we would invite their leader to come and see planet Earth. If they accept, with communications done in psionics to account for differing biologies and communication forms, begin discerning why they are here and what they want, to accelerate our preparations. If they decline and launch the initial assault, they will wipe out much of mankind's communication infrastructure, at which point the Illuminati will direct all of Earth's resistance through their psionic network. Grand Illuminator to the Council of Four, Council of Four to their regional delegates, regional delegates to their Generals and so on down the chain of command. This will take up all the time of the Illuminati, and the risk of losing the psionic communication network will mean all the psionics would be hunkered down in their respective fortified HQs.

Thereafter it will simply be a question of time.
If we are victorious, we shall psionically interrogate the aliens remaining until we discover their homeland, reverse engineer their technology and begin colonizing the stars - the psionics then extending their communication network through the stars, transforming humanity into one unified galactic species. If we are defeated, threaten the aliens with destroying planet Earth unless they leave.

The most significant variable besides the aliens' initial unknowable nature is that we also do not know who provided us with the briefcase. Are they allies, are they human, are they a different kind of alien to the ones invading etc.? What are their plans? It is for example, entirely possible that the pretence of alien invasion is all a ruse, and mankind is being prepared for the stars by some unknown 3rd party. Thus in the event of the 6th year approaching and there being no alien invasion, at once set about with the spacefleet to the goal of colonizing the solar system and the galaxy as a whole. Spread out the pionics as far and wide as possible. There is a danger if the aliens do not arrive that the Illuminati commence infighting, this situation would be fatal for mankind, carved between five psionic warlords, thus the Illuminati would have to commit suicide or spread out into the stars to ensure this never happened. This of course would also maximize the chance of humanity surviving, ensuring that even if Earth was wiped out, others would survive unseen to carry the torch forwards.

My biggest concern in the aftermath, whether or not there is an invasion, whether or not mankind is victorious is what happens when the psionics die. Will their descendants form dynasties of psionics, or does the psionic power die with them? Would future psionics be able to maintain a centralized galactic state, or would it collapse like Alexander's Empire, going to the strongest? I suppose the alternative would be to attempt to create an Immortal Man Emperor of Mankind, thus ensuring no succession crises like that

Azzuro

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Re: Hypothetical: What do you do?
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2017, 12:17:03 pm »

2. While this is objectively the best option, I am concerned that the spontaneous death of 1/3rd the world's population would actually do more damage than fusion power would do in benefit. Humanity can deal with 1/3 of the population dying, but 1/3rd the world population dying at random all across the world? There's a fair chance of everything going completely tits up with world leaders, scientists and vital infrastructure personnel just up and dropping in what the doom prophets would be jumping to call rapture as the third world war begins amidst the chaos.

This is a good point. It'll basically be the Black Death come again, except across the entire world instantly rather than just Eurasia, with all the attendant socio-economic upheaval and war. Hell, just gathering burying the bodies alone before they start to rot could be an uphill task especially in urban areas. And modern economies definitely can't survive the loss of 1/3rd of the workforce in any recognisable fashion: this will also be the mother of all economic recessions. It also took the world population 2-3 centuries to recover to pre-Black Death levels, so really, sacrificing 1/3rd of the world's population for any of the three options is unthinkable in terms of advantage gained.

My biggest concern in the aftermath, whether or not there is an invasion, whether or not mankind is victorious is what happens when the psionics die. Will their descendants form dynasties of psionics, or does the psionic power die with them? Would future psionics be able to maintain a centralized galactic state, or would it collapse like Alexander's Empire, going to the strongest? I suppose the alternative would be to attempt to create an Immortal Man Emperor of Mankind, thus ensuring no succession crises like that

In the grim darkness of the 39th millennium there is only the search for ayylmaos to fight.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Hypothetical: What do you do?
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2017, 01:04:00 pm »

This is a good point. It'll basically be the Black Death come again, except across the entire world instantly rather than just Eurasia, with all the attendant socio-economic upheaval and war. Hell, just gathering burying the bodies alone before they start to rot could be an uphill task especially in urban areas. And modern economies definitely can't survive the loss of 1/3rd of the workforce in any recognisable fashion: this will also be the mother of all economic recessions. It also took the world population 2-3 centuries to recover to pre-Black Death levels, so really, sacrificing 1/3rd of the world's population for any of the three options is unthinkable in terms of advantage gained.
Aye. Even worse than the black death too, in that the deaths are spontaneous, while the black death ravaged over decades allowing people to (broadly speaking) accommodate, plan and prepare for it. 1/3rd of the world just dying at once at the same time - I imagine the shock alone would kill many more, it could very well turn out to be one of those ironic things where humanity then has fusion power but human civilization collapses. One shudders even to think how humankind would even go about the rest of their lives having experienced such an unknown and terrifying mass death event, the cults that would ensue would be fanatical

In the grim darkness of the 39th millennium there is only the search for ayylmaos to fight.
"Somewhere, some incredible ayyylmao is waiting to be killed." - Carl Sagan

Also on review, I guess another way the ayylmaos could invade would be through infiltration, which wouldn't exactly work with all of mankind given advance forewarning to fear anything that might be ayylmaos. Also ban anime
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The illuminati would have to ban anime to thwart ayylmao infiltration of human society by normalizing martian beauty standards

Folly

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Re: Hypothetical: What do you do?
« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2017, 01:29:00 pm »

In the briefcase are 5 vials...In 5 years, an alien invasion will begin...the vials grant psionic powers to anybody that drinks one, drinking a second will temporarily supercharge one's powers to the point of being a one-man army, but a third will be lethal.
The first thing I would do is collect four companions...with each individual drinking one of the vials. In this manner we would maximize the psionic output per vial

The first alien arrives, his psionic powers are exactly 10% stronger than those granted by the vials. He hunts down you and your companions one by one and eliminates you because you have no way to power-up.

You have failed the test and Earth is destroyed to make room for an intergalactic highway.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Hypothetical: What do you do?
« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2017, 03:11:49 pm »

The first alien arrives, his psionic powers are exactly 10% stronger than those granted by the vials. He hunts down you and your companions one by one and eliminates you because you have no way to power-up.

You have failed the test and Earth is destroyed to make room for an intergalactic highway.
That situation would actually be very beneficial to my strategy. For starters, the first alien would have to get through the orbital forces first. Then it would have to make landfall on a fortified Earth, before navigating its way through a militiarized and heavily policed Earthling society - all unnoticed, which would nearly be impossible. It would then have to track down one of the human psionics despite the human psionics residing in heavily fortified and secretive bases with no need for contact with the outside world, and then have to kill one of the human psionics. Assuming it doesn't do anything like step on a landmine or eat bullets and missiles, it then has to defeat the human psionic with a mere 10% advantage in power, which would not exactly be much when considering reinforcements from conventional human forces.

Upon killing that human psionic, this then reveals that the alien invasion has begun, the aliens are psionic in nature, and that they are targeting human psionics - given that the other four psionics are on other corners of the world, there is no way then to stop this information being known by the rest of humanity and for countermeasures to be enacted, especially if all five are regularly maintaining contact - meaning even if one is taken by surprise and cannot send a distress message or warning, their absence will be noted. Once mankind dons their tinfoil hat technology or whatever alternative available, the aliens will be dealing with a mankind who knows what their enemy is and what their capabilities are. Thereafter this one alien, all by itself, will be stuck on planet Earth with the other four psionics directing the effort to hunt and capture it down. With this thing being 10% stronger than any one psionic, we're talking a psionic that's 110% capability versus the other four psionics at 400% before you factor in the billions of humans searching for it.

I am of the opinion that putting the vials into temporary usage on fewer individuals is putting too many eggs in one basket with too little resilience. Having one one-man army psionic on the frontline uses two vials and is only temporary simply sucks. It is worse if it is halted by the fact that if the invasion is planetwide, having one single psionic will simply be incapable of affecting any meaningful defence except in one geographical location. Only by directing human resources planetwide can the vials be most effectively utilized, both in short, medium and long term. It would be meaningless to have one individual drink all vials, become supersteroids psionic and then die having slaughtered the first wave of the enemy invasion, only to have all of mankind die in a following attack - or to know there is still the alien civilization out there.

Moreover, there is also the risk that the vials themselves are the ploy used by the aliens to conquer planet Earth, using psionic Earthlings to subjugate planet Earth in the most efficient manner possible before usurping and assuming command over the institutions and networks the psionics have crafted. Thus having a one-man army psionic would be too dangerous to humanity, the psionic humans must be valuable to humanity (providing intercontinental communications that cannot be destroyed by a spacefaring civilization is invaluable) without themselves being unstoppable to humanity (if in an unlikely event it turns out that the psionic humans are the unwitting tool of a rival faction of aliens, humans must stand a chance of being able to kill them). Dividing the vials in this way, ensuring none of the psionics can become one men armies at all, maximizes the utility of the psionics whilst likewise maximizing the reasonable chances for humanity to murder them if they go rogue, minimizing the damage done if any of the psionics die, and also ensuring that none of the psionics is strong enough to simply wipe out the other psionics easily and monopolize their rule to the detriment of defence preparations.

Folly

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Re: Hypothetical: What do you do?
« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2017, 04:31:28 pm »

the first alien would have to get through the orbital forces first.
The psionic bends space around itself, making it's ship invisible to all automated defenses.
It would then have to track down one of the human psionics despite the human psionics residing in heavily fortified and secretive bases with no need for contact with the outside world
10% more psionic power allows it to sense lesser psionics anywhere in the galaxy, while hiding it's own presence from detection by the weaker psionics.
it then has to defeat the human psionic with a mere 10% advantage in power, which would not exactly be much when considering reinforcements from conventional human forces.
Conventional human reinforcements are incapable of perceiving the psionic as a threat or anything out of the ordinary. Psionics basically trump all non-psionic defenses.
Upon killing that human psionic, this then reveals that the alien invasion has begun
The alien does not kill it's victims immediately. Upon overwhelming their inferior minds, it takes control of them and forces them to act normally until it has finished neutralizing all potential threats.
we're talking a psionic that's 110% capability versus the other four psionics at 400%
Psionic powers are not additive in that fashion. It would be like 4 guys with guns against 1 guy with a tank. Those 4 guys are going to be wishing they had that temporary army.
Moreover, there is also the risk that the vials themselves are the ploy used by the aliens to conquer planet Earth, using psionic Earthlings to subjugate planet Earth in the most efficient manner possible before usurping and assuming command over the institutions and networks the psionics have crafted.
So, you're handed a weapon and presented with an overwhelming enemy, and you refuse to use the weapon on the grounds that it might be what the enemy wants you to do? You're definitely screwed if you don't use the weapon, so you gotta take that risk.
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Cthulhu

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Re: Hypothetical: What do you do? (What if you had the cure for cancer)
« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2017, 04:34:25 pm »

I'd flip all three switches, fuck the police.

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misko27

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Re: Hypothetical: What do you do?
« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2017, 05:45:50 pm »

STUFF
Everything you just said is an assumption based evidence not provided in the initial hypothetical. Saying psionic powers are not additive? I'm sorry, I'll need to see your degree in Psionics to trust you on that one.

For all you know, the aliens have 220% better psychic power, not 110%, so keeping the extra power is pointless entirely. For all you know, psionic power works exponentially when used between multiple people, so the power of five people is far more than a single individual. For all you know, psionic powers are barely better than placebos to begin with, as our only definition of their power is that 200% makes you into a one-man army, which still doesn't tell us much about 100% (20/80 principle kiddos).

It's better to limit our assumptions to things we actually know from the hypothetical, otherwise this is just Superman v. Goku.
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Frumple

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Re: Hypothetical: What do you do? (What if you had the cure for cancer)
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2017, 06:02:10 pm »

... seriously though, which superman are we talking? If you're going to bring it up, it's time to tread thoroughly trod upon old ground.

Goku's conceptually limited in some ways, but some of the superman incarnations have a list of powers that just reads, "Yes." Others get punched to death. Pick yer baseline!
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Folly

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Re: Hypothetical: What do you do? (What if you had the cure for cancer)
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2017, 09:28:47 pm »

I'm sorry, I'll need to see your degree in Psionics to trust you on that one.



If superman had a solar grenade that could supercharge his powers, and he knew that Goku was coming to pick a fight, so he used his solar grenade as a flashlight before Goku even showed up, then Superman would rightfully get his Kryptonian ass handed to him.

Regardless of the details, you had an option for powering up, and you squandered it based entirely on your own completely unfounded assumptions. If you had kept one or two vials in reserve, you would have been prepared. Instead, you killed us all.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 09:37:03 pm by Folly »
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Neonivek

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Re: Hypothetical: What do you do? (What if you had the cure for cancer)
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2017, 09:44:46 pm »

I should remind you that come Dragon Ball Super... Goku has taken a severe drop in power level.

So thusly we should wait until the Aliens get their powers lowered... You know "Power Seep, Power Creep"

The worst show for this... was Saint Seiya without any competition. I should state the characters part way through the series move at the speed of light.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 09:48:47 pm by Neonivek »
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Hanslanda

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Re: Hypothetical: What do you do? (What if you had the cure for cancer)
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2017, 09:48:20 pm »

Suddenly a wild Goku vs. Superman appears... >.>
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