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[Chiefwaffles]

So maybe we could revise some explosive ammunition instead of using a design on it. It'd mean no AP shell this turn, but if the Crystalclad comes out of the oven well done, then we may not need the AP shell immediately. I'm still heavily leaning towards the AP shell but I'll see once we know how the Crystalclad turns out.
Future(?) Revision: Blastgem

We've had experience with anti-magic arrows. Made using crystal in the same manner we use our anti-magic charms and magegems, they're unstable enough to explode in magical contact. This proves that we can utilize magegems' explosive potential without converting it into things such as fireballs. The presence of too much magic in a container leads to an explosion. Our anti-magic arrows were notably weak because of their containers' low capacities. But using the storage of an AA-sized magegem, we can fill it up to the brim in capacity allowing to unleash a sufficiently devastating explosion.

The Blastgem is a simple revision to the Magegem. We add a basic "timer" circuit (we've done much more complicated things with circuits in the past) to a slightly overcharged AA-sized Magegem. When the circuit is activated by a very firm touch for multiple seconds, it activates. The circuit will tick down, and once it reaches zero, will cause a "spark" in the overcharged magegem, making it explode.


TL;DR: We make a grenade by overcharging a Magegem. Then later, we can revise this grenade using our experience with the Equalizer into an explosive shell for our artillery, freeing up a design slot that we would have had to use for an explosive shell.

The Blastgem is immediately useful in close-range/melee combat, as any of our soldiers can use it as a grenade. This makes it have some use now, but their artillery is still dampening that fact. But, using Blastgems and experience from the SO1-AM Equalizer (anti-magic shell), we can revise the Blastgem into an explosive shell. So if we were to revise the blastgem this turn then the explosive ammo next turn, we would be able to use next turn's design for something else. Sure, it's not a fireball, but I'm worried about overinvesting in the department of fire, since it is something that can be countered.
Perhaps even better, this serves as a huge stepping stone for other things like Firegem, Chaogem, Lifegem, Frostgem, and more.

[Andres]

I'm not too sure about the crystal engines too, though. Because it is sneaking a revision onto a design.

((It's not "sneaking" a revision into a design. That kind of thing is perfectly in line with designs. Again, look at tanks in Arms Race. It's perfectly fine, valid, and normal to improve multiple things about a tank and even add in new things. One completely normal design is to make a tank with thicker frontal armour, a turbocharged engine, and a spotlight.))

[FallacyofUrist]

4 - Crystalclad: Chiefwaffles, Andres, Kadzar, FallacyofUrist
1 - Rod To God: RAM
0 Ragnarok Rounds
0 Metaconjuration
0 Vine Mine
0 Antiluck wards

I say we use our revision to revise our Equalizer shells. I can only imagine what it'll do to the Moskurgians' magical armor.

For now, though, I would like to see a better ship.

Edit: fixed.

[Andres]

2 - Crystalclad: Chiefwaffles, FallacyofUrist
1 - Explosive Ammunition: Andres
1 - Rod To God: RAM
0 Ragnarok Rounds
0 Metaconjuration
0 Vine Mine
0 Antiluck wards

I say we use our revision to revise our Equalizer shells. I can only imagine what it'll do to the Moskurgians' magical armor.

For now, though, I would like to see a better ship.

Take a look at the last page. That vote quote of yours is quite outdated. Revising the Equaliser shells is a good idea, though.

[Chiefwaffles]

Alright. I'll leave the Crystalclad as it is. I'm also fine with the idea of revising Equalizer shells. We could focus the revision on reliability while the auto expense credit from metal (or crystal?) makes it Very Expensive.


And what do people think of an APC-like vehicle in the near future? The one I posted actually seems plausible - a crystal vehicle powered by a steam engine that carries 8 people around safely. If the Crystalclad succeeds, we'll have light crystal steam engines as well as extensive experience in making vehicles and other large objects out of crystal. Then all we need to do is make a new crystal "hull", put wheels on it, and make the engine power the wheels instead of paddles.

I am getting a bit tired of constantly playing catchup, even if we have been doing well at that lately. An APC would actually allow our troops to get to the front lines which is a huge problem with Moskurger artillery. It'd protect them from air attacks as well among many more things.

[andrea]

For the equalizer, maybe a better idea would make a magegem powered explosion shatter smaller antimagic crystals around? that would shut down their lucky shot over a larger area.

[Chiefwaffles]

Well, right now the shell is filled with tons of charms, and if it doesn't explode while firing, lands in a place and sits there while disabling anti-magic around it.

While making it work off of anti-magic shrapnel spread across a wide area would be nice, the shell is still buggy. With the right fluff, we can have the revision automatically make it Very Expensive instead of a NE thanks to our metal/crystal bonus. Then we can dedicate the rest of the revision towards making it not explode. If all goes right, we'll have a reliable and actually manageably expensive anti-magic shell.
Because it is pretty powerful now, as the effect is permanent as long as the shell is intact. We just want to be able to make it safe and actually able to be used in the field.

However, it may have a problem with their ships as our shells just tend to ricochet off. The Equalizer won't be particularly useful if it disables magic at the bottom of the ocean, so for now we may still be better off doing an AP shell/the blastgem. Anti-magic shrapnel would fix this but I'd still rather not put exploding cannons on our ships.

[andrea]

I am not sure our metal/crystal bonus will help that much automatically... it is a different kind of crystal we are using here.
The main problem with it is that it has to land very close to a ballista to have any effect at all, the big ball is rather short ranged. I admit however that making the crystals not explode near our cannons would still be a step in the right direction... But that can be solved by a good casing surrounding the crystals maybe?

I have went and checked the original design. It explodes because of jamming if it shatters at launch. It is very expensive because it uses a lot of charms and because it is custom made for each cannon. Custom made can be solved by crystal shells maybe? would help making them more easily. Quantity of charms isn't something we can reduce, until we make it a bit more explosive.

[Andres]

The Equalisers will be useful against their ships. The anti-magic field they generate should nullify the enemy hull's durability for enough time for the same shell to punch through the armour. If it shatters after that, it doesn't matter, because then the anti-magic stuff is inside their ship.

Glory to Arstotzka.

[Chiefwaffles]

It's a National Effort, not very expensive. But nowhere is it stated that it has to land very close to a ballista. In fact, it actually has a very respectable range. It's quite explicitly notably greater than our anti-magic charms, and our artillery is pretty accurate anyways.

For the revision, we can do things like a stronger metal casing, getting the metal bonus. We could try to replace it with crystal and use an AAA magegem to "absorb" the magic acquired during firing, preventing it from exploding in the barrel and therefore get the crystal bonus. There are lots of things we could do.

And good point, Andres.

[Andres]

For the revision, we can do things like a stronger metal casing, getting the metal bonus. We could try to replace it with crystal and use an AAA magegem to "absorb" the magic acquired during firing, preventing it from exploding in the barrel and therefore get the crystal bonus. There are lots of things we could do.

That magic absorption stuff is overly complex and unnecessary. That said, I think we should include crystal in the design to knock it down an expense level.

How do the resource bonuses work? What do they do? That's confused me. I thought it gave +1 to roll involving them but now I'm not sure.

Glory to Arstotzka.

[andrea]

Do we actually know if the antimagic charms have any effect on their metal?
we will discover that next turn , anyway, if we make the shell cheaper and more reliable.

if crystalclad turns out good, maybe we want to spend the expense credit on it?

@Waffles: from the turn they were introduced, "We manage to land one close enough to a Moskurg artillery piece that the magic powering it falters and it falls comically short of our lines". That seems to imply the range is not that great. keep in mind that radius of effect grows with the cubic root of the charm volume, so while it has bigger range, it is not so big that accuracy doesn't matter.  And right now our accuracy is hidnered by the fact that we are mostly shooting blind, with only an indication of the general area of the enemy (flares). We may land a shot only 10-15 meter from target, but we can't actually target much.
using magegems to absorb magic acquired should not be a problem, the charms we used are not of the exploding variety. They jam and destroy the cannon, but they don't explode in the barrel.

[FallacyofUrist]

For our next design, after the Crystalclads, I would agree with the armored troop carrier thing. And after that...

Spoiler: Future Designs (click to show/hide)

Dreadnaught MK I: The idea to put a Crystalclad on land seemed stupid. With some revision, it ceased to be so. Basically, what we've built is a crystal-coated metal wagon propelled by multiple steam engines. Treads are used for propulsion for terrain crossing and synergy with the steam engines. Magegems easily fuel the steam engine. The Dreadnaught is a troop carrier and crusher. When it hits an enemy position, it will crush each foe(and possibly other emplacement) it hits, then deploy several squads in the middle of the enemy position. Basically, it's something we can send across the wastes that are the plains, surviving ballista strikes and firebombs in order to safely get our troops in the middle of the enemy(and use our new permeant crystal weapons.

Arstotzkan Reconditioning Center: We've figured out how to apply our falcon conditioning techniques to humans. It took some tweaking, but we now have specialized cells that convince the Moskurgian prisoners placed within of Arstokzan superiority. We combine this with psychological warfare tactics, propaganda, education, and planted false prisoners to build the pressure for conformity. No longer will we need to kill prisoners... now they will fight on our side.

Arstotzkan Archery Academy: We have an academy for our apprentices, so why don't we have one for our archers, and our Mage Hunters? Increases the number of Mage Hunters we can field, and the general archery skill of our recruits.

How do the resource bonuses work? What do they do? That's confused me. I thought it gave +1 to roll involving them but now I'm not sure.

I'm fairly sure they take things using them down an expensive level.

[Chiefwaffles]

I believe the last time Evicted talked about them he said that new designs making use of a resource bonus get knocked down an expense level from wherever they would normally be. And if you're revising something, it can also automatically knock it down an expense level even when that's not the point of the revision, as long as the revision could be somewhat related to the resource bonus.

For general reference.

Design: SO1-AM "Equalizer" [2-1+1, 2-1, 1]

This turned out to be a lot tougher than we thought.

The good news is that it is possible, just...difficult.  And we were required to make some concessions in the design.

Rather than a single, massive anti-magic charm, we've instead crafted an ordinary cannon shell that has multiple anti-magic charms encrusted throughout it.  Because using charms that explode has invariable destroyed every cannon we've attempted this with (likely due to the PSF cast in the steam chamber) we've been forced instead to use our more up-to-date charms that sadly don't exploded into lethal shrapnel.  They still have a chance to break when being fired out of a cannon though, and this occassionally causes it to jam and explode violently.

However, if enough of the gems survive and the cannon doesn't explode, the shell will prevent any magic from being cast near where it lands.  Surprisingly, our researchers note that when the charms overlap the volume of the anti-magic field is preserved.  Having multiple charms in the same area negates magic in a larger area, although continuing to add charms has diminishing returns with respect to range.

Due to the number of charms and extra effort to craft each shell for each specific cannon, these shells are terribly expensive and we can only make enough to outfit one cannon per year.  National Effort.

The problem with replacing it with crystal is that crystal explodes. We have two types of anti-magic: Gem (like the charms) and Crystal (anti-magic arrows). The magic used in the firing process will always detonate the anti-magic material if it's unstable. So if we replaced it with crystal, we should probably include some plan on how to fix the exploding problem regardless of whether we want it to explode or not after launch.

@Andrea: That does not imply range isn't great. Directly before that statement is an overview of the Equalizer's flaws which does not include range. It's implying the Equalizer isn't great because we only have one cannon firing it and that cannon tends to explode often.
Also, our HC1-Es are still very effective and fire using line-of-sight.

[FallacyofUrist]

We have the best artillery here. That's a fact. Better ammo would make everything so much better.

But we're going to need better Magegems to push our magical machinery further. Our best Gem can currently power a few flare spells.