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[Tyrant Leviathan]

All I can say is if obscuring Must does not work. We are screened. I am against the two designs at a time. And if we secure the jungle got to invest in plant/ earth magic AND the navy.


And in navy just do designs there.

[Tyrant Leviathan]

Whoops. I messed up and put Roboson and Stabby in the deploy order instead of plant growth. Roboson fixed it already but I'll move Stabby back to the right spot.

1 steam cannon: Stabby
3 Obscuring Mists:10ebor10, Azzuro, voidlsayer
0 Timed Bomb Arrows :
0 Variable Crystal Weapons :
0 Fireball arrows :
0 Earth Elemental Control :
1 - (Anti-magic) "IFF System": Stabbyx2
0 - Anti-magic bomb lingering anti-magic fields:
0 - Anti-magic mines:
1 Attunement Rods: RAM
0 Crystal Tower Shields:
0 Saboteurs :
0 Design: Living Shields:
0 Design: Codpiece-Rippers:
4 Plant-growth: Chiefwaffles, Roboson, Stabby, tyrant
0 Permanent conjuration:
0 Pillar of unmagic:
1 Ballista: Andres

Considering my living shield vote does not count. Switched it. And screw ballista of our own. Cannons are the future. With time.]

[evictedSaint]

I think part of your issue coming to a consensus is that one person will present three or four ideas and vote for none of them, resulting in a list where over half the ideas have no one voting for them.

Regardless, I'll roll the design for plant-growth here in a little bit unless you guys change your minds in the meantime.

[RAM]

Maybe we can spend the expence credit on out armour so that we can wear two suits of plate armour, one over the other, thus preventing their hybrid ballista/catapult(I am guessing some sort of tornado, but that would be impossible to aim, I mean, probability all you want there is still no way that is happening... Spears? From a catapult? or a trebuchet? They aren't that orientation-oriented... Rocks our of a ballista? not possible... And they only just brought it out as a design, with no revision this turn, so either it is a multi-turn project or a single design. They probably used wind and their somehow-justified pressurisation theory to produce an air-cannon... Or upgraded their divination to zen levels "one meditates upon the pile of spears. One does not hurl the spears, one simply waits until the moment when the spears shall hurl themselves, and simply bestows upon them the magic with which to do so."...) from penetrating with their puny spears! Eh, eh! Gotta work!

The antimagic charms are, well, a good idea, but they don't use much directed magic against the rank-and-file.

Can we use it on our apprentices for more fireballs?

[Light forger]

Since Attunement Rods won't win (I care not for faux pas) I will go ahead an vote for Obscuring Mists.

I don't think we should focus on keep the jungle, well a jungle. I think we should start working to counter their advantages in the plains and in doing so stop the deforestation of the jungle from being an issue. Also just to make things tidier.

Limit two designs per person.

[stabbymcstabstab]

Limit two designs per person.

I'll second that all it does is cause discussion to get crowded and makes count votes a pain.

[Roboson]

I don't think we should focus on keep the jungle, well a jungle. I think we should start working to counter their advantages in the plains and in doing so stop the deforestation of the jungle from being an issue. Also just to make things tidier.

It being a jungle is what gives us the advantage there. If it was open and deforested, we would not only lose our bonus, but Moskurg would gain a bonus. We'd go from a having an innate advantage there, to being at a disadvantage. Honestly, if we wanted to counter their advantages in the plains, we would plant a jungle there.

[Chiefwaffles]

Their advantage in the plains isn't "they have magic or tech that works better in the plains", it's "the fundamental nature of their military works better in plains." Same goes for us and the jungle. With some focus we could lessen their advantage in plains, but just keeping it a jungle would be a much more viable option and allow for junglification of other places like Roboson mentions.
Let's also keep talk about expense credits for revision/orders (if we can use expense credit in orders) phase just to keep it organized, by the way.

EDIT: And now apparently it turns out we need a tiebreaker. Let me re-summarize my argument:

1.) The jungle is going to disappear.
2.) The jungle gives us a huge advantage
3.) Obscuring mist gives a minor advantage which can also be easily countered with a revision of their existing spells.
4.) Plant growth keeps the jungle from disappearing, keeping our huge advantage.
5.) In addition to having the jungle not disappear, plant growth also provides a variety of other benefits - visual and physical shielding from their ranged units like ballistas, stealth, skirmishes, routing phases, and more.

[stabbymcstabstab]

0 steam cannon:
4 Obscuring Mists:10ebor10, Azzuro, voidlsayer, LightForger
0 Timed Bomb Arrows :
0 Variable Crystal Weapons :
0 Fireball arrows :
0 Earth Elemental Control :
0 (Anti-magic) "IFF System":
0 Anti-magic bomb lingering anti-magic fields:
0 Anti-magic mines:
1 Attunement Rods: RAM
0 Crystal Tower Shields:
0 Saboteurs :
0 Design: Living Shields:
0 Design: Codpiece-Rippers:
4 Plant-growth: Chiefwaffles, Roboson, Stabby, tyrant
0 Permanent conjuration:
0 Pillar of unmagic:
1 Ballista: Andres

So RAM Andres you two are the deciding vote(s), and I'm going to state the fact that once again if the plants in the jungle die, they are going to overrun us with calvary again.

[evictedSaint]

I need a tie breaker, please.

[Tyrant Leviathan]

Also my argument forbplant growth: It is new! Something they will not see coming and lead to other magics we could not before. From tree growth to attacking roots to feeding trooos, poison our enemies and so forth. Even tree golems and stuff if we can work around their anti magic thing.


All the most wil donis get blown away by their wind magic, which they can easily do.
Plants? They will have to change their game plan AND it will make defending The taiga even easier to boot.

[VoidSlayer]

I need a tie breaker, please.

Sure switch to plants whatever, lets make crystal bladed thorn bushes next wooo

[VoidSlayer]

0 steam cannon:
3 Obscuring Mists:10ebor10, Azzuro LightForger
0 Timed Bomb Arrows :
0 Variable Crystal Weapons :
0 Fireball arrows :
0 Earth Elemental Control :
0 (Anti-magic) "IFF System":
0 Anti-magic bomb lingering anti-magic fields:
0 Anti-magic mines:
1 Attunement Rods: RAM
0 Crystal Tower Shields:
0 Saboteurs :
0 Design: Living Shields:
0 Design: Codpiece-Rippers:
5 Plant-growth: Chiefwaffles, Roboson, Stabby, tyrant, voidslayer
0 Pillar of unmagic:
1 Ballista: Andres

[evictedSaint]

Design: Plant Growth [3, 6 5]

We have some experience bringing life into the world - primarily through wasps, but it's experience nonetheless.  As it turns out, making things grow is pretty dang easy compared to spewing blood-thirsty wasps out of your fingertips.

The spell is cast through a wand of fresh-cut dogwood, still green and sticky with sap.  It requires rather precise cutting, engraving, and enchantment before it can be used, but dogwood trees are common and a mage could produce a wand a day, given the time and motivation.  The downside is that the wands only last a couple days before they dry out and stop working, but that's not a big issue due to the relative ease of production.

The effect is currently constrained to what our mathemagicians refer to as "low-level" plants - grasses, weeds, wildflowers, plants of that nature.  Each plant must be enchanted one at a time, with each enchantment taking a couple minutes to perform, but once enchanted the plant can grow from a sproutling to full adulthood over the course of single day.  Aside from the eventual combat applications, our researchers are excited as to how this spell can be used in civilian life.  Poor harvests may one day be a thing of the past, and we will never want for wood to keep our homes warm at night.  Imagine growing tropical fruits in the dry, cold tundra of our homelands.  Oranges and pears for breakfast and dinner every day, rose gardens lining every road in Arstotzka, full granaries of wheat and corn every autumn - our King seems particularly pleased with the direction of our research.  It still needs a bit of work, but our current progress is very promising.  Cheap.

[Roboson]

It seems we have reached an impasse. Either RAM or Andres could break this tie, but neither seem to be online. Normally I'd switch votes in a situation like this, with two good ideas being put forward, but keeping our position in the jungle is a better short term goal, and the bonus it provides will help us more in the long run.


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems the situation to me:

1) We've taken the jungle and now have to hold it.
2) Because of our rampant spellcasting, we're destroying the jungle.
3) Destroying the jungle costs us our close quarters bonus, and gives them the open spaces bonus (Which is worse than just us loosing our bonus).
4) If we use our tower of frost and or fireballs in jungle this turn, it becomes deforested.

So we have a few options:

A) We use fire and frost to hold the jungle this turn, thus destroying it, and making it much harder to hold in the future (including this turn).
B) We try and hold the jungle without using the tower of frost or our fireball spells. Which is basically impossible and almost a definite loss of territory.
C) We get plant magic which not only helps us hold the jungle by its own merits, but allows us to regrow the damage we're causing. Which solves all of our immediate issues.
D) We get whatever else we want, destroy the jungle, and lose it either this turn or next like we lost the plains.

I need a tie breaker, please.

Sure switch to plants whatever, lets make crystal bladed thorn bushes next wooo

Let it be known that VoidSlayer is a true Arstotzkan hero. And specifically, my hero.