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[Derpy Dev]

How can you mod the game so that dwarven kings can be demons? I know that humans and goblins can be ruled by demons, but can you mod the game so that dwarves can?

[Witty]

I don't think you can. As of right now, the only civs that have demon rulers are goblins. Humans used to have them, but that behavior is broken as of right now.

The only reason demons could become human rulers anyway was because they have the variable positions entity tokens, which dwarves lack with their defined leadership positions. The tag responsible for making these unique demons was the POWER tag - but that's also broken currently. I tried adding the tag for dragons - and while they did become the civ leader eventually, their previous hostile relationship wasn't culled for actual in-game play so he just killed all his worshipers as I approached his hall as an adventurer.

[Derpy Dev]

I don't think you can. As of right now, the only civs that have demon rulers are goblins. Humans used to have them, but that behavior is broken as of right now.

The only reason demons could become human rulers anyway was because they have the variable positions entity tokens, which dwarves lack with their defined leadership positions. The tag responsible for making these unique demons was the POWER tag - but that's also broken currently. I tried adding the tag for dragons - and while they did become the civ leader eventually, their previous hostile relationship wasn't culled for actual in-game play so he just killed all his worshipers as I approached his hall as an adventurer.

Hmmm... If you mod the game so you can play as goblins, can you have a demon ruler?

[Witty]

Hmmm... If you mod the game so you can play as goblins, can you have a demon ruler?

Yes, unless the demon of that goblin civ happens to have died in worldgen.

[Derpy Dev]

Hmmm... If you mod the game so you can play as goblins, can you have a demon ruler?

Yes, unless the demon of that goblin civ happens to have died in worldgen.

Okay. Thanks for the help!

[skelepound]

If its the civ that causes demon rulers to be possible, copy and paste the details of a goblin civ over to a dorf civ, and replace the creatures with dorfs, re-add all of the special dorf reactions like steelmaking - just so you don't have to have a dorf city without STEEL - and yea, Demons will be able to rule le dorfs, and enjoy.

If its the race, replace everything cosmetic about goblins, like hair and skin color and the name displayed in-game with dorf stuff, replace the stat progression, and do the reverse to dorfs. Again, you have dorfs ruled by demons!

[Derpy Dev]

If its the civ that causes demon rulers to be possible, copy and paste the details of a goblin civ over to a dorf civ, and replace the creatures with dorfs, re-add all of the special dorf reactions like steelmaking - just so you don't have to have a dorf city without STEEL - and yea, Demons will be able to rule le dorfs, and enjoy.

If its the race, replace everything cosmetic about goblins, like hair and skin color and the name displayed in-game with dorf stuff, replace the stat progression, and do the reverse to dorfs. Again, you have dorfs ruled by demons!

I will have to do extensive testing. Presumably the king will still be able to come to your fortress.

[skelepound]

i think one of those has to work - like, if it doesn't, i have no idea how its possible. I cannot think of a possible way for NEITHER of those to work. So i hope you choose the right one on ur first go!

[D_E]

If memory serves, to start with a Demon ruler (as goblins do), a civ must have the Dark Tower site type, no RELIGION token, and VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL.  I don't know if the demon ruler will  come when the king would.... I think he would.

This system used to be more flexible, but in recent versions messing with it causes world gen crashes.  (Ie, a Dark Tower civ with a regular religion crashes, as does a regular site type with no religion, as does a Dark Tower demon civ with pre-coded land holders, I think).

[Derpy Dev]

I thought I could just stick the SITE_CONTROLLABLE tag onto the goblin entity files and win at life. Nope.

For some reason, the woodcutters can't chop down trees. They can't make nobles either, and they don't trade. Or drink beer. THEY DON'T DRINK FREAKING BEER THE SAVAGES i need help

[Mediterraneo]

If memory serves, to start with a Demon ruler (as goblins do), a civ must have the Dark Tower site type, no RELIGION token, and VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL.  I don't know if the demon ruler will  come when the king would.... I think he would.

This system used to be more flexible, but in recent versions messing with it causes world gen crashes.  (Ie, a Dark Tower civ with a regular religion crashes, as does a regular site type with no religion, as does a Dark Tower demon civ with pre-coded land holders, I think).

This conforts me in weird way: I was trying to understand why I couldn't keep Rhenaya's drows in their 34.11 Dark Fortresses in 43.05, I constantly had crashes in world generation. Changing it to a detailed cave "solved the issue" - but without solving this thread's problem and without solving my "translate with utter fidelity" problem.

On topic: could something be done to transform the dwarven king to into a demon somehow? Like in the way in which Boltgn's Succubus transofrm prisoners into other things. Succubus are also available in Meph's Masterwork.
I get that it is not the same as a society founded and always ruled by a demon but...

The alternative, if I understand correctly what D_E said, would be to add a separated entity of dwarves, which live in Dark Fortresses without Religion tokens and without any Position but "VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL". Call it Entity: DEMON__MOUNTAIN?

EDIT: I'm still the last post, better than doubleposting.

I tried it.
I removed RELIGION tags, substituting the positions with    [VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL] and [SITE_VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL] and adding: [DEFAULT_SITE_TYPE:DARK_FORTRESS], [LIKES_SITE:DARK_FORTRESS] and [TOLERATES_SITE:DARK_FORTRESS].

I generated a quick pocket world with a dwarven civilization lead by a female moongoose demon and another one lead by a dwarf king from the beginning. "It works". I'd recommend changing some of the language symbols for the "demon" civilization to clarify what is what without having to look at the Legends file.

But embarking with the "demon" dwarves you find yourself without nobles at the embark. I did not play, just controlled that, I don't know if some form of that appears later.
It's up to you if playing without nobles is unacceptable or a wet dream, but that's something to notice.

Also, about the names: would there be a way to differentiate between two entities with the same ethnicity? Both the "normal" and "demon" dwarves here are called "dwarves" on embark and on Legends - the creature's name, not the entity's.
Would it be possible to differentiate that without copy/pasting one of the creatures into a different named species?

Cheers folks!

EDIT: D_E was correct again about the positions in a dark fortress site: adding them back causes crashes in world generation. Maybe we can try some investigation with [VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL] and [SITE_VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL] to see if it is one, the other or both of them needed.

[D_E]

If memory serves, to start with a Demon ruler (as goblins do), a civ must have the Dark Tower site type, no RELIGION token, and VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL.  I don't know if the demon ruler will  come when the king would.... I think he would.

This system used to be more flexible, but in recent versions messing with it causes world gen crashes.  (Ie, a Dark Tower civ with a regular religion crashes, as does a regular site type with no religion, as does a Dark Tower demon civ with pre-coded land holders, I think).

EDIT: D_E was correct again about the positions in a dark fortress site: adding them back causes crashes in world generation. Maybe we can try some investigation with [VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL] and [SITE_VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL] to see if it is one, the other or both of them needed.

Someone who was not me did that already, but I can't find where.  I think it's LAW_MAKING specifically that causes world gen crashes.  If you delete that tag from all the hard-coded positions, it may start working.

What seems to happen is, the demon-leader-code needs to be able to use the VARIABLE_POSITION code to create a special leadership position for the demon, and it also needs that leadership position to be the only one in the civ.  So not having VARIABLE_POSITION causes a crash, and having a hard-coded position with LAW_MAKING likewise causes a crash.

It also needs to create a Dark Spire for the demon to rule from, which is only valid in the Dark Fortress site type.  So trying to give another site type a demon ruler causes a crash at that step.  Likewise, Dark Fortress civs need a demon in order for their Dark Spire to be created, so trying to use the Dark Fortress site type without a demon ruler causes a crash when the Dark Spire fails to be initialized properly.

[Mediterraneo]

Thanks D_E!

[D_E]

If memory serves, to start with a Demon ruler (as goblins do), a civ must have the Dark Tower site type, no RELIGION token, and VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL.  I don't know if the demon ruler will  come when the king would.... I think he would.

This system used to be more flexible, but in recent versions messing with it causes world gen crashes.  (Ie, a Dark Tower civ with a regular religion crashes, as does a regular site type with no religion, as does a Dark Tower demon civ with pre-coded land holders, I think).

EDIT: D_E was correct again about the positions in a dark fortress site: adding them back causes crashes in world generation. Maybe we can try some investigation with [VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL] and [SITE_VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL] to see if it is one, the other or both of them needed.

Someone who was not me did that already, but I can't find where.  I think it's LAW_MAKING specifically that causes world gen crashes.  If you delete that tag from all the hard-coded positions, it may start working.

I made my Dark-Tower-Twili playable, and it seems I was misremembering which tag causes the problem.  It's not LAW_MAKING, it's CHAT_WORTHY that seems to cause crashes.  As long as none of your positions have CHAT_WORTHY, it doesn't matter what else they have, world gen is fine with it.

This may sound weird, but it actually makes some sense, as CHAT_WORTHY is what causes a position to exist during world gen (presumably because world gen then needs to know about that position's holder so it can record their deeds and spread rumors about them).