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[Nobak]

In a world I made, I found a dwarven civ that is struggling, and stuck in a long-lasting war against a strong goblin civ, and I thought I'd try to help them grow their numbers and fend them off.

My plan was to make forts, retire them, make more forts. Maybe get a breeding program going.

But what I've found is when I retired a fort, everyone who didn't join my next one just got slaughtered over the next few years in successive goblin attacks, including soldiers that had reached a pretty good level of proficiency.

I guess if I abandon my forts instead this can't happen, (my first fort was an abandon and they didn't suffer the same fate) but the civ has also run out of sites. Their sites have all been taken by goblins, including the capital Pillarwashes which was taken by the goblins pretty much when I started my first fort. At this point, the queen of my civ is a member of the government the goblins have put in place at Pillarwashes.

Is there something else I could try? Or is my ability to alter the world too limited as the game stands, and the Gears of God are doomed?


Edit: It should be noted that the site I retired was not very far from Pillarwashes nor from the goblin lands. Should I try and hide my forts around the world, far away from that goblin civ?

[StrawBarrel]

Try making a fort on a land mass that's inaccessible to the goblin civilization. It might be less FUN having no invaders, but I think you can still get forgotten beasts on islands.

[PatrikLundell]

I would use StrawBarrel's logic to seed the world with fortresses out of reach of the goblins (which does not have to be on a different land mass, if the world is large enough and the goblins haven't covered it all) to build up strength, coupled with large breeding programs. The breeding is needed because most (or possibly all) of the migrants to subsequent fortresses would come from previous ones.

The other alternative is to start an adventurer and decimate the goblin hordes with it.

[Staalo]

Well, you could start an adventurer and tour the nearby Dark Fortresses. It might take some time and it certainly would be hard work, though.

[vanatteveldt]

If you start in range of the goblins and get them to siege, wouldn't casualties be subtracted from their populations? A fortress focused on churning out high-value items and elite goblinsmashers might also help the home civ by depleting the opponent's numbers? Or doesn't it work like that (yet)?

[Nobak]

If you start in range of the goblins and get them to siege, wouldn't casualties be subtracted from their populations? A fortress focused on churning out high-value items and elite goblinsmashers might also help the home civ by depleting the opponent's numbers? Or doesn't it work like that (yet)?

Each siege contains very few historical figures, so the slaughter really doesn't do much on the historical level. As far as I can tell only the leader is a historical figure, with goblins who managed to kill a figure will also becoming one.

I would use StrawBarrel's logic to seed the world with fortresses out of reach of the goblins (which does not have to be on a different land mass, if the world is large enough and the goblins haven't covered it all) to build up strength, coupled with large breeding programs. The breeding is needed because most (or possibly all) of the migrants to subsequent fortresses would come from previous ones.

I've found a small continent with just elves and humans that I'm going to settle. Nīrumid, or Landfall, is the site where the rebirth of the Gears of God will begin.

I like it. It has a reverse Shining Force 2 feel to it. We were on the big continent and fled to the small one. I feel like at some point I need to make a large fortress called Groundseal.

I intend to cap the number of dwarves at a somewhat low level, both to try to prevent draining previous sites, and to have room for births before FPS drags too low.

I'm not sure how the breeding program will go. As noted in other threads, getting relationships established is complicated, and my last project at Futureswords owes it partial success solely to migrant couples. Friendships did develop, at least. I made no temple, no tavern, no nothing, so dwarves would socialize in the dining room instead of wasting all their time praying and meditating. There wasn't that much time available for idling though, what with all the building projects and the mandatory military training one month out of 6.

I think it could have worked given more time, but the flying glass titan that spawned too close to the fort to get locked out ruined those plans. Lesson learned, don't build near the edge.

[PatrikLundell]

I believe casualties do subtract from fortress populations, as I've seen the number of ogres, trolls, and beak dogs drop a little due to siege losses. On the other hand, a rough estimate indicated it would take about 200 years to empty the goblin capital site, assuming there were no births or slave raids, at their normal loss rate. They probably would run out of trolls a lot faster though (probably only 50 years or so), as most of the losses are trolls, since they are faster and slightly less inclined to retreat.

My experience of breeding programs is that socializing is crucial to getting dorfs to become lovers and marry. Just make sure they're alone in a tavern zone (their shared bedroom), have some kind of knowledge of each other (or at least one knowing the other), and both are willing to marry opposite the gender.

[cyrohound]

If you're just trying to get fortresses to bolster the population and eventually send troops to help, then you need to settle in a place that can't be sieged (an island is a good example).

[vanatteveldt]

I believe casualties do subtract from fortress populations, as I've seen the number of ogres, trolls, and beak dogs drop a little due to siege losses. On the other hand, a rough estimate indicated it would take about 200 years to empty the goblin capital site, assuming there were no births or slave raids, at their normal loss rate. They probably would run out of trolls a lot faster though (probably only 50 years or so), as most of the losses are trolls, since they are faster and slightly less inclined to retreat.

Wouldn't you be able to trap a complete siege by e.g. building a ring of raising bridges along the edge of the map? People are using those to keep sieges out, why not use them to keep them in?

[PatrikLundell]

My attempts with rings to keep sieges out were too successful: the buggers failed to find their way inside through the open bridges (0.40.X) and instead drifted aimlessly along the map edge until the siege timer ran out (sometimes one or two would enter to donate some goblinite). Such constructs are also thought to contribute to the number of caravans that fail to enter the map.
If you're trying to contain a complete siege you should probably make a long winding corridor so the last ones enter (and you can close the outer drawbridge) before too many in the front get caught in traps. You'd then have the only exit being through lots of traps to deal with the ones fleeing.

Goblins seem to flee when about half the force is lost, so getting all of them would only double the rate at which they're whittled away.

[nuget102]

The best way to bolster population would be as follows (I recommend dfhack to automate the forts brewing, cooking, etc)

1) have sufficient farms set up to support a huge fort (think at least 150 would be the minimum)

2) set up stills to produce alcohol (or just have a well, but no alcohol will produce bad thoughts)

3) have a large dormitory or a huge amount of rooms

4) seal the fort so no one can get in and make sure you turn off pausing on auto save

5) set labors to only farming and brewing (pot making is negligible if you have df to auto resume suspended jobs, as they will reuse pots)

Let the fort run for as long as you like, I recommend running it as you sleep. Maybe even during the day as you watch Netflix. With the auto resume on suspended jobs set up you won't need to worry. Maybe set up a graveyard and refuse (miasma doesn't flow diagonally, so it can be done underground)
With the fort being sealed forgotten beast and sieges are a non issue.

As a side note, set other civs to playable and you could effectively revive any race. Anywhere you want. Might be a good way to get caravans in the glacier or bring a world back from extermination via mega beast.

[slashnul]

Set your visitor cap super high.  That way youll get immigrants from other civilizations.  They'll assimilate in 2 years.
Set your child cap and ratio high.
Breach the caverns and tame everything.

If you cant entice the monarch to move to your fort... retire, load up legends mode, find where the king/queens at.  Go into adventurer mode.  Assassinate them.  Check legends for the new monarch.  Keep assassinating until they show up in your retired fort.

I tried to do this but got distracted after one assassination.  New version of DF came out and I started on a new generated world.

[Derpy Dev]

If you cant entice the monarch to move to your fort... retire, load up legends mode, find where the king/queens at.  Go into adventurer mode.  Assassinate them.  Check legends for the new monarch.  Keep assassinating until they show up in your retired fort.

Gotta love the mentality of the average player. If they don't want to visit you, kill them and see if there successor makes the same mistake. Only Dwarf Fortress would make you think that.

[mikekchar]

Gotta love the mentality of the average player. If they don't want to visit you, kill them and see if there successor makes the same mistake. Only Dwarf Fortress would make you think that.

Though, I'm not sure it's too far removed from what happened during the Roman empire ;-)

[Nobak]

One thing I've realized is - it seems anyone who holds a noble position when you abandon a fort will be locked into that position as a member of that government. It seems as though they are effectively taken out of the migrant pool and will just stay in their nomadic group. I'm guessing this is also true when you retire a fort. This includes all militia captains.

What's more, empty noble positions get filled by the game when you leave the fort.
I'm thinking it might be a good idea to disband the militia and re-assign all existing or empty noble positions to dwarves who are useless and not married to useful dwarves.

Another thing I've found out is even though it's quite difficult to get marriages in fortress mode, it seems that marriages happen quickly once you leave the fort (be it retire or abandon).

For instance, Cerol Bannergorge was a member of my previous fort Futureswords and joined the new one in the first migrant wave:
* In early autumn of 348, Cerol fled into The Swamp of Paper
* In late autumn of 348, Cerol married the dwarf Zulban Wheelstrees
* In midsummer of 349, Cerol settled in Landfall
Zulban was also a citizen of Futureswords. I've had several other marriages happen when changing forts (with the couple showing up in the next one).
Interestingly, looking at a previous save, Zulban and Cerol were not even on friendly terms when 348 started.


Does anyone know if the nomadic groups that result from abandoning will ever do anything, or are they stuck in limbo?