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[center][url=http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=163892.0][img]http://i.imgur.com/JRzhAFv.png[/img][/url][/center]Courtesy of Egan_BW!
Current goals are pretty simple; we're trying to gain information about our surroundings, and get a feel for what's happening in the world around us. Slightly more long-term, we want to get our hunters hunting rare beasts--there's one in particular that's around, which is apparently very dangerous and very rare--while our more talky members build influence in town. Ideally, we should end up in control of Zaffre, preferably without alienating the populace.
Analysis of our peers: Who's a threat and why?syvarris
Empath / Invoker
4 STR, 8 SPD, 4 END, 12 KNO, 12 WIL, 4 SNS
Toaster
Alchemist / Invoker
4 STR, 6 SPD, 4 END, 8 KNO, 10 WIL, 12 SNS
Gentlefish
Channeler / Invoker
12 STR, 6 SPD, 8 END, 6 KNO, 8 WIL, 4 SNS
MidnightJaguar
Hunter / Gut-reader
6 STR, 10 SPD, 10 END, 6 KNO, 6 WIL, 8 SNS
The Lupanian
Hunter / Gut-reader
10 STR, 6 SPD, 6 END, 8 KNO, 4 WIL, 10 SNS
Egan_BW
Channeler / Flesh Scroll
12 STR, 6 SPD, 6 END, 4 KNO, 8 WIL, 8 SNS
Max spell statline: 12 STR, 10 SPD, 10 END, 12 KNO, 12 WIL, 12 SNS
Strengths:
We're the only cabal with channelers, which is likely the strongest PvP class due to spell absorption. We have a very safe and versatile starting location, and two gut-readers who should be able to power up fairly rapidly. Empath synergizes well with hunters and gut readers. We now have three invokers, which also synergize very well, and have the strongest spellcasting statline of any cabal. Finally, we have an alchemist to digest thaum, and convert valuables which aren't useful to us into thaum.
Weaknesses:
While we have two gut-readers ourselves, there are no indep gut-readers to trade materials with. Overall, we have somewhat low endurance. Our starting location limits us, since we have to cross mountains to see most of the world. This used to be longer before Toaster.
Dermonster
Hunter / Flesh Scroll
12 STR, 8 SPD, 8 END, 4 KNO, 6 WIL, 6 SNS
Beirus
Alchemist / Sculptor
4 STR, 8 SPD, 10 END, 8 KNO, 10 WIL, 4 SNS
ATHATH
Servant / Sculptor
4 STR, 4 SPD, 10 END, 12 KNO, 10 WIL, 4 SNS
adwarf
Hunter / Ascetic
4 STR, 8 SPD, 10 END, 8 KNO, 4 WIL, 10 SNS
Whisperling
Empath / Ascetic
4 STR, 12 SPD, 8 END, 4 KNO, 12 WIL, 4 SNS
GiglameshDespair
? / ?
? STR, ? SPD, ? END, ? KNO, ? WIL, ? SNS
Max spell statline: 12 STR, 12 SPD, 10 END, 12 KNO, 12 WIL, 10 SNS
Advantages: Fist has about the same max statline as us, if slightly weaker, but three 10 end players rather than only one. They have sculptor synergy, which probably takes much longer than gut reader to get going, but also has more versatility. They have two ascetics, which covers their early-game disadvantage because they can choose words. They have a slight advantage in numbers, but they seem to have decided to sit with six players, and we're going with six max as well. They have one, and only one alchemist, which lets them digest thaum--and they can even convert the sculptor statues into thaum. Overall, they have high endurance
Weaknesses: Two of them are Ascetics, which have a decent chance of getting themselves killed, and don't have any synergy with anyone. Their sense is entertainingly low, making them extremely vulnerable to illusions--except for adwarf, who has 4 WIL instead. ATHATH is a servant, which is completely unpredictable and could be very bad for them. As a whole, they seem more fast-and-loose than us, as exemplified by their "everybody in" approach to recruitment. Finally, while we don't know their location, they're open about their plans to be mobile, which likely means in a direct fight we'd win--even if they succeed in making a fortified flying castle, given the same period of time I highly doubt our fortifications would be inferior, and would likely make heavy use of illusions.
Shadowclaw777
Alchemist / Invoker
4 STR, 10 SPD, 6 END, 6 KNO, 12 WIL, 6 SNS
OceanSoul
Servant / Invoker
8 STR, 6 SPD, 8 END, 10 KNO, 6 WIL, 6 SNS
vishdafish
Hunter / Gut-reader
4 STR, 12 SPD, 6 END, 6 KNO, 4 WIL, 12 SNS
Max spell statline: 8 STR, 12 SPD, 8 END, 10 KNO, 12 WIL, 12 SNS
Advantages: They're small, and could change greatly. They already have an alchemist for thaum digestion, and strong SPD for combat. They haven't been verbally aggressive at all, beyond OceanSoul's (misunderstood?) offer to spy, so they might be willing to ally. The fact that all of them could benefit from trade with us, but none of them can trade with FIST, helps that. They have some invoker synergy, with two invokers, but there's no more indep invokers or gut-readers, so that probably is all they'll get.
Weaknesses: They're small, and will likely stay that way. They have no synergy at all, beyond the invoker's potential synergy with indeps. They have nobody with high END, or STR, which if not fixed with future recruits could be dangerous. They have no synergy with FIST, either, which means an alliance between the two isn't a large risk. While their max WIL/SNS is high, only one person has even decent stats in either--they have two 4 WIL people, and two 6 SNS people, making them vulnerable to a combined attack.
AkumaKasai
Hunter / Gut-reader
6 STR, 6 SPD, 10 END, 8 KNO, 6 WIL, 8 SNS
DoctorMcTaalik
Alchemist / Sculptor
10 STR, 4 SPD, 6 END, 12 KNO, 6 WIL, 6 SNS
Max spell statline: 10 STR, 6 SPD, 10 END, 12 KNO, 6 WIL, 8 SNS
Advantages: They're small, and can become anything. They have an alchemist, and are fairly well-rounded, but really I can't say much with them at this size.
Weaknesses: They're small, and will likely stay that way, unless they're absorbed into Fountain of Skulls. Even if they are, they only add a little gut-reader synergy. Both have weak WIL, which could be exploitable.
Lenglon
Channeler / Invoker
4 STR, 6 SPD, 10 END, 8 KNO, 10 WIL, 6 SNS
NJW2000
Servant / Sculptor
6 STR, 12 SPD, 6 END, 6 KNO, 6 WIL, 8 SNS
SpottedWobbegong
Alchemist / Sculptor
6 STR, 10 SPD, 4 END, 12 KNO, 4 WIL, 8 SNS
Lenglon has expressed no interest in joining a cabal, but she is an invoker, and therefore we might be able to trade materials with her. The fact that she's a channeler without strength or a d12 makes her somewhat underwhelming, especially considering the fact that she's a confirmed indep.
NJW2000 doesn't seem like he's going to align with anyone either, and would only be notable if he joined FIST, anyway. The fact that he's a servant makes him somewhat unpredictable, and his d12 speed makes him dangerous, but as with all indeps, we don't really need to worry.
SpottedWobbegong has already refused our terms for recruitment, so he's mostly a risk joining another cabal. I'm not terribly worried about that--FIST, while having a lot of Sculptors, seems to be shutting down recruitment now that they have six members. Fountain of Skulls and Rejinheri don't benefit from a alchemist, and only Rejinheri has a sculptor, and both already have a high KNO person. At worst, he strengthens their resistance to illusions a bit.
Information RepositoryVarious questions about game mechanics which might influence decisions will be stored here. We should also mirror the safer info in the main thread's third post, so people are referencing a Zerthel Zentol resource. It's great to be seen as the friendly neighborhood cult that just wants to help.
(ER) Piecewise, Derm has those d8 damage punches. Given that I didn't take that as my own grand item, can I improve my kung-fu to the point of doing that myself in-game?
(Piecewise) You can get like that via finding a good martial artist and training with them
(ER) like derm? :V
(Piecewise) Hmm, good point
(Piecewise) we'll assume he actually has some iron gauntlets
(ER) why can't he be a master? just because he'd teach all his cabal superpunches?
(Piecewise) I just don't want everyone in his cabal getting a d8 weapon for free
(Piecewise) Thaum becomes mana as soon as you drink it
(Piecewise) so you could drink and use in the same turn
(syv) How long does it take to transfer mana between two people?
(Piecewise) really depends on amount transferred
(Piecewise) if you're doing a lot it might take multiple turns but usually just 1
(Piecewise) Nah, its your action for that turn
(Piecewise) unless your turn is outside of combat
(Piecewise) since turns can last a while outside of combat
If we flayed the skin off of a flesh scroll, would other flesh scrolls be able to read the dead skin and learn materials from it?
Hmmm....seems reasonable. But you'll have to be careful to get it all in one piece.
Do note that there's only one use for this, because there's only two Flesh Scrolls at the time of writing; Derm, leading FIST, and Egan, who is ours.
(ER) Piecewise, can a flesh scroll lose their materials if the corresponding flesh gets sliced off?
(Piecewise) Possible, but they could just retattoo it on
(Piecewise) assuming they lived
(Piecewise) losing a huge chunk of skin would be rather difficult to survive
(Piecewise) losing a huge chunk of skin would be rather difficult to survive
(syv) Would that not cut into their material limit?
(Piecewise) Depends on if their skin regrows
(ER) would they need to retrive the flesh to copy it back down, or can flesh scrolls apply any material they've seen before? Piecewise
(Piecewise) For simplicity sake we'll say they can remember it
(Piecewise) since they're locked in on the materials they get and all
(Piecewise) Otherwise they might try to game the system via self skinning
(Piecewise) which is an odd idea
(Piecewise) but not beyond imagining
(ER) Piecewise, so if I cut my skin off and then regrew it, those slots would be cleared up?
(Piecewise) Nope
(Piecewise) You'd still have that material perm slotted, just not useable till the marking is remade
(Piecewise) to stop exactly what you just said
(Piecewise) I mean, we can do that, but just remember anything applies to everyone
(Piecewise) if you do it, so can everyone
(ER) so really the mats are permananty stored in you mind, but only work if they exist on your body
(Piecewise) yeah, I suppose
(ER) I don't mind it much, as regenning flesh will cost mana
(Piecewise) Well we can handle it like that. So that a flesh scroll literally has to filet themselves to change materials
(Piecewise) Thats fine with me
(Beirus2) You should ask Derm first.
(Beirus2) Since he's the other flesh-scroll
(Piecewise) eh, I don't want to spread ideas
(ER) If I were to observe Derm through binoculars or something, and sketched out his tats, could I then apply them without his permission?
(Piecewise) Not through binos, no
(Piecewise) If you captured him, and got him to tell you what they meant and then copied them, that would work
(ER) okay, if I had derm tied up in my basement and naked, could I copy his materials? :V
(ER) HYPOTHETICALL, OF COURSE
(Piecewise) yeah, probably
(ER) Piecewise, if I got a mundane but sweet-looking tatoo, would that eat into my material limit?
(Piecewise) ER yes, any skin thing would eat up space. But it would need to be pretty big to count
(Beirus2) So if we found a flesh scroll and gave them a pointless full body tat, they couldnt use magic, piecewise?
(Piecewise) not without removing that tat
(Whisperling) So they have to flay their own skin off and then get healed to change it?
(Piecewise) yep
(Piecewise) which, I mean, good chance they'd die somewhere in that process
(Piecewise) use up a lot of mana and time at the very least
(syv) Could you tattoo over an existing tattoo to ruin it?
(Piecewise) yeah, and enough damage to a tattoo could ruin it too
(Piecewise) Burns for instance
Small question, what concrete advantages does it have to officially create a cabal as opposed to just gathering some lemmings together and calling yourselves the dumbest thing you can come up with? Except for getting a clubhouse free of charge if you're one of the early ones, I guess.
Well, cabals can control territory. If they can get on the good side (or bad side via some sort of reign of terror, or just control it via other means like replacing the mayor or something. ) of a town then they are considered to control that town and area and might get some nice perks from it. Individuals could do stuff like this, but cabals have the bonus of confering it on many people instead of just one. So the positive acts of your friends could give you bonuses.
...I apparently messed up and didn't save the logs, but I asked PW whether those bonuses were numerical (like +1 to bum scratching because you own a town full of awesome bum scratchers) or narrative (like just having access to a ton of cheap bum-scratcher conscripts). IIRC, he essentially said "either, depends" without further expansion.
I don't have the logs, but when questioned about hunters and mana gain, he said they get more based upon the difficulty and danger of the situation, at least to a degree. A hunter fighting a big beast as part of a group will get a little less mana than he would fighting alone. Fighting alone and giving himself penalties (such as being unarmed, or wounded he *might* get more than if he were at full capacity--this isn't reliable however, and it's likely subject to diminishing returns to avoid munchkinning.
Hunters also don't need to land the killing blow. They just need to be part of the fight, right in the thick of it. If they're in danger from the kill during the fight, they get mana--otherwise, they don't.
(syv) I'd like to know whether a ranged hunter, fighting with a melee group, would get equivalent mana to a melee hunter in the same group, after killing some big melee-focused beast.
(syv) I know the danger that a hunter is in affects the mana they get somewhat, so would the fact that a ranged guy is safer behind his meat-shield allies penalize him?
(Piecewise) sort of
(Piecewise) Depends on the danger he's in, honestly
(Piecewise) if he's still with the group and has equal chance of being attacked, yes
(Piecewise) if he's sniping from some hilltop, no.
(syv) If a hunter were being stealthy, and shooting from atop hills *alone*, but mostly without risk, would he not get mana?
(Piecewise) He would get some, just not as much
[22:59] <syv> (syv) Can an alchemist/sculptor eat their sculptures after learning the material, with no loss? Or is the knowledge tied to the sculpture?
[22:59] <syv> (Piecewise) They can melt it, but doing so means they can't then share the knowledge that sculpture contains
[22:59] <syv> (Piecewise) So if they don't wanna share, its fine
[23:00] <syv> (syv) Is a sculpture worth more thaum than its constituent parts?
[23:00] <syv> (Piecewise) Yes
[23:00] <syv> (Piecewise) Mostly because a lot of parts for it will not be that valuable
[23:00] <syv> (Piecewise) Just hard to get and very specific
[23:00] <syv> (syv) Do sculptures have a decent chance of being practical and useful in and of themselves? Like a weapon, or a special tool?
[23:00] <syv> (Piecewise) Eh...depends on definition of "Decent"
[23:00] <syv> (Piecewise) Don't bet on it
[23:00] <syv> (Piecewise) but its not impossible
[23:00] <syv> (Piecewise) Think of it like dwarf fortress artifacts
[23:00] <syv> (Piecewise) might get a weapon
[23:00] <syv> (Piecewise) probably gonna get a really nice sock
[23:00] <syv> (syv) Okay. Thanks.
[23:00] <syv> (syv) I feel more and more uncomfortable with FIST's trio of sculptors, and alchemist.
(FIST only has two Sculptors, I misremembered)
A lot of discussion tends to go on in IRC, generally in the evenings (~2100-0200 EDT). I try and save all the important stuff in the information repository above, and either post or PM about discussed topics, but it's a good place to go if you want to hash something out quickly.
IRC: darkmyst.org #zerthelzentol #EinsteinianRoulette is also frequented by Piecewise and some Cabal players.
Here's a mibbit webchat link to our channel.
Map AnalysisI swear, I'll do this eventually. There's some stuff that needs to be written down about the map, and a plaintext list of cities would be great for searching through. For now, though, I've been procrastinating about placing our base's location in this thread.
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Topic: Zerthel Zentol OOC (Read 9269 times)