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Author Topic: In the event of a mass virus outbreak... Radiation?  (Read 496 times)

Xvareon

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In the event of a mass virus outbreak... Radiation?
« on: April 27, 2017, 10:13:17 pm »

Situation:  A new, previously undiscovered, and incredibly virulent virus is released from Earth's permafrost as a result of global warming gradually melting the polar icecaps. Only 1% of its genes are made of anything remotely known to scientists; the rest is part of an enormous genome that allows the virus to bind to and mutate and manipulate DNA and RNA, and hybridize creatures with other creatures to form Lovecraft/Cthulhu-style tentacled fish abominations. A thick, microbial mist begins to cover the skies over the ocean, catching birds and mammals unlucky enough to be in its path, and adds them to the virus' ever-growing gene bank. The human population of Earth stands to be nearly decimated when the virus attains their DNA and gains high intelligence and sapience capabilities. Standard decontamination procedures, such as what astronauts undergo when coming back from a spacewalk, cannot completely eliminate all trace of the virus from a surface.

Now we need to find a way to deal with this. What's our best way to kill a virus currently? Let's not even think about saving the patient. Just kill the fricking virus dead. Disperse the microbial clouds. Kill its DNA to drop the mutated creatures where they stand. I thought about flamethrowers, and that would probably work, but perhaps only on a smaller scale. Then I thought about radiation guns. Can we make radiation guns? Like the Adeptus Mechanicus has in WH40k? They have "Rad-cleansers", and weapons that fire gamma rays. Radiation is a giant "screw you" to DNA, as everyone knows, and it can disperse like crazy into an atmosphere because it sticks to everything and never leaves for YEARS, so wouldn't that be an effective method? I mean, the possibility of just mutating the virus further is there, but it's already mutating, so what the hell, right? Nuke the gorramn ocean if you have to.

What are our chances of building a "radiation gun" with the tools we've got today?

How effective is radiation at killing microbes in general? Or do they not even care about it?

What kind of radiation would be the best for the kind of wide-area dispersal to effectively kill the virus, both in creatures (the carriers) and in the air?

Any other methods besides radiation that might be really effective for wiping out such a resistant and adaptive virus?

Discuss. (And if you know what upcoming title I'm referencing with the virus, you get a cookie.)
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 10:15:31 pm by Xvareon »
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smjjames

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Re: In the event of a mass virus outbreak... Radiation?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2017, 10:23:42 pm »

We have radiation guns, of a sort, nukes. Radiation guns are perfectly feaseable, after all, you get shot with one when you go in for an x-ray for example, it's only a matter of power.

Also sounds like some sort of Grey Goo type situation.
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My Name is Immaterial

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Re: In the event of a mass virus outbreak... Radiation?
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2017, 02:26:05 am »

I'd say that nukes are going to be the only practical answer.
According to this, it takes about 8 sieverts to be fatal, but that's not quick: in the 1999 Tokaimura nuclear accident, the victims survived for months. So, if you decided to shoot this plague-zombie-Grey-Goo-thing with a radiation gun, you'd probably just piss it off. If you want to kill it in a single shot, you're looking at a dosage of 200,000 Sv (Assuming 590 Sv/h for a period of 10 seconds). That's the radiation level in the primary containment vessel of the 2nd reactor of the Fukushima power plant, as of this February.
Let me put it this way: if you're not a tech-priest, and you shoot a radiation gun strong enough to actually kill something, you will die.
The only really practical battlefield answer here is nukes, but using nukes at the scale required to ensure the virus is eliminated is probably going to lead to a nuclear winter, dooming most of the life on the surface of the planet to extinction. The only things that will survive will be creatures that live underground, and those that live in the depths of the ocean. This would be an extinction event a hundred times that of the extinction of the dinosaurs. Mankind would survive in small, scattered pockets: think Fallout, if no one survived on the surface, and the vault dwellers were the only proper survivors. And even then, those who can scrape out a living in the irradiated wastes are few and far between. If, and that's a big if, humanity were to recover, it would take thousands of years.

Now, if you're looking for a less explody manner of fighting a virus, vaccines are the best idea. However, if your super-virus was as badass as described here, a weaker strain will still probably fuck you up for a while, but it'd train the body to fight it. It also relies on someone being able to create a vaccine from this, which is pretty unlikely. Then, you've got the problem of distributing it to not only the entire population, but all livestock and wildlife, but that's an entirely different issue, which is fascinating in its own right.

helmacon

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Re: In the event of a mass virus outbreak... Radiation?
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2017, 03:26:54 am »

Wait... This thing can bind to and restructure DNA. If it includes its victims in its own genome, it can bind to its own DNA and rewrite it. So it could repair any radiation damage it didn't like, unless you just overwhelmed it with a ton of radiation. I would say that's a bad idea, cause then you fuck the world up for yourself too.

If this stuff is as omnipresent and hard to get rid of as you say, flamethrowers ain't gonna do Jack shit.

I think the answer here lies in the virus itself. Make a strain of it that kills its host instead of just mutating it. Quarantine the place, and let it starve itself out. If it's so widespread though, quarantine humanity for a few century's, and then reclaim the earth.
It be good for us. Give us some time to work on sustainability and all that.
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Azzuro

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Re: In the event of a mass virus outbreak... Radiation?
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2017, 08:27:43 am »

Human civilization would not survive such a virus.

W.r.t. your questions about radiation, I believe you're referring to radiation sterilisation. We could make 'rad guns' if we put our minds to it, and in fact we have portable UV light sterilisation devices already. However, they're way way too small-scale to deal with the kind of outbreak you speculate. If the virus (or its microbial hosts) are so dense as to be seen in the air, they'll likely be a thousand times more plentiful in the ocean, ranging from the photic levels to the hadopelagic depths in a variety of host forms. Humanity would literally never be able to sterilise that volume of water, even if we turned our entire economic output globally to the production of radioactive materials to disperse, or submersible drones equipped with UV sterilisers. Cut off from the ocean, the economy would nosedive worldwide, as nations struggle to make up for the seafood shortfall, and trade dwindles to what can be carried by air freight.

That is of course, assuming the virus is so friendly as to stay in the ocean. Nearly all of the world's major cities are located at the coast, and those that aren't are along major rivers. If virus hosts get into the sewer systems and aquifers, there's no getting rid of them save ridiculous numbers of nuclear strikes to penetrate the bedrock, so the cities are lost, along with a large part of human technological knowledge and expertise.

Sure, we could hide underground. Deep underground, in solid shells of concrete with a nuclear reactor to keep us warm and lighted farms to convert that electricity to a more palatable form, perhaps emerging when our descendants have forgotten a world without a roof overhead. Except that this assumes we'll outlast and wait for the virus to 'starve out'. If the virus is intelligent and sapient, as it would be having assimilated so much of humanity, it could ration out the remaining biosphere, only consuming the bare minimum to stay (alive?) and letting the rest regrow. Or if it can incorporate photosynthetic tissues, then it would replace the biosphere entirely. More likely, it'll take an active role, secreting organic acids to melt through the concrete, within as little as years. The day the vault-dwellers hear the dripping of groundwater through their walls, they'll pass around the last bullets and turn out the lights.

Our best hope for survival would be the theatre which no form of Earthly life has yet to venture into save humanity - the absolute void of outer space. Entire nations would turn their dying days to building rockets to send their best and brightest into the void, while massive riots rage over who gets to escape the nightmare. Much would depend on the rapidity of the outbreak - would we have time to build and hurl aloft hydroponic farms, knowing that the survivors would never be able to trust any resupply from home? The primitive colonies would have to stay separated - can't afford to keep all your eggs in one basket, after all. Except that limits the variety of eggs available - humanity would face a genetic bottleneck unlike any in our history, with the number of viable couples numbering only in the double digits. Assuming that the survivors, knowing that everyone they ever knew is dead or dying, confined to a bubble the size of an apartment with the same people for the rest of their lifespan, did not go insane and vent the airlock.

Perhaps some lucky few would make it to the moon or even Mars, dispatching jerry-rigged capsules down the gravity well and digging homes in the lunar regolith while staking out solar-panelled lawns. Against all odds, they might re-establish some semblance of civilisation if they had the numbers, bootstrapping themselves up from what they brought with them, scavenging ice from comet craters and manufacturing electronics from lunar silicates. It'll be a faint shadow of what our civilisation was capable of at our peak, but they'll be human and surviving, if not thriving.

Until decades later, when they catch sight of the bright flares of chemical rockets rising up from the Plague World like grasping fingers. Who knows how they'll react?

Dang, I'm getting the urge to write a novel about this now.
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Re: In the event of a mass virus outbreak... Radiation?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2017, 09:15:38 am »

1. Move to Madagascar
2. Nuclear bomb everything else. Even if the virus is not entirely destroyed, no humans or life will survive outside of Madagascar to serve as a host for the virus, the ensuing nuclear winter will refreeze the virus

ChairmanPoo

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Re: In the event of a mass virus outbreak... Radiation?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2017, 09:29:21 am »

Tbh I dont understand the premise. You say it's a virus but the way you describe it hardly sounds like a virus.

Worth noting that particle accelerators are routinedly used in cancer therapy though. I'm surprised noone brought that up.
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Re: In the event of a mass virus outbreak... Radiation?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2017, 05:10:16 pm »

You are speaking of a self adapting Biophage, not a virus. It would overrun Terra in months, maybe years if we are lucky. As we lack any sustainable offworld presence, Humanity would be fundimentally doomed. Biophages are the kind of thing you burn planets down to the bedrock to contain.
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