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Author Topic: Latin American Politics: Venezuelan Civil Unrest  (Read 30496 times)

Magistrum

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Re: Latin American Politics: Venezuelan Civil Unrest
« Reply #825 on: June 13, 2019, 07:47:59 am »

Yes, operation car wash* is now ubder heavier scrutinity from the public because of that. We had big corruption scandals in the past, so not many of us doubt that the crimes uncovered by the operation are real. The problem is that now everyone that had a "pet bandit" as it is usually said here, imprisoned due to car wash can are now screaming foul play from the top of their lungs.

*Way, way bigger. It is called car wash because it started as a investigation into a car wash being used to launder money(heh).

Edit: Man, Moro and Dallagnol were working together with Supreme Judge Fux to stop the Squid interview (Which they succeeded, albeit with an unconstitutional decision by Fux), their texts:


Mensagem de 22 de abril de 2016

13:04:13 Deltan: Caros, conversei com o FUX mais uma vez, hoje
Dear gentlemen, spoke with FUX once again, today

13:04:13 Deltan: Reservado, é claro: O Min Fux disse quase espontaneamente que Teori fez
queda de braço com Moro e viu que se queimou, e que o tom da resposta do Moro depois foi
ótimo. Disse para contarmos com ele para o que precisarmos, mais uma vez. Só faltou, como
bom carioca, chamar-me pra ir à casa dele rs. Mas os sinais foram ótimos. Falei da importância
de nos protegermos como instituições
Reserved, of course: The Min[inister] Fux said almost spontaneously that Teori wrestled Moro and got burned, and that Moro's following response tone afterwards was great. Said to count on him for what we need, once again. All that was left, like a good carioca[Person from Rio de Janeiro], invite me to his home lol. But the signals were great. Talked about the importance of protecting ourselves as institutions.

13:04:13 Deltan: Em especial no novo governo
Specially in the new government

13:06:55 Moro: Excelente. In Fux we trust
Execellent. In Fux we trust

13:13:48 Deltan: Kkk
lol

---------

They talked about Teori, the former judge responsible for the investigation, who died in a terrible helicopter crash with no survivors and a lot of conspiracy theories are cropping up again.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 09:15:37 am by Magistrum »
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smjjames

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Re: Latin American Politics: Venezuelan Civil Unrest
« Reply #826 on: June 13, 2019, 10:16:37 am »

Time to rebuild Brazil from scratch? That is a hell of a deep corruption.

I knew Brazil had corruption issues, but that bad? I thought it was mainly the monetary sort of corruption (like the car wash scandal and the thing with that lake), this is like, a level above that. Also, with the way the Republicans act, it seems like they'd only be a few steps away from this kind of corruption.

I'm curious as to what Bolsonaro has said or thinks about all this. Time to see if he drops Moro like a radioactive potato?

And yeah, I've heard of that helicopter crash, seemed pretty suspicious for sure, but no conclusion was reached to my knowledge.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 10:22:38 am by smjjames »
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GPeter

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Re: Latin American Politics: Venezuelan Civil Unrest
« Reply #827 on: June 13, 2019, 11:54:16 am »

While the conversations and everything that has been revealed so far is indeed really bad. Something has caught my attention with these news. Usually every journalist tries to protect their source of information, specially if that source works in "Illegal" ways. While Intercept did bring up some nasty shit that was previously hidden, they did 2 "mistakes" that make me a little suspicious (Not claiming that everything going on is fake though). First (Correct me if I'm wrong) they upright claimed to have gotten that information with the help of hackers, what kind of journalism group/blog simply yells to everybody that they work with hackers? Since Hacking is Illegal bascically everywhere... And also, so far, not a single screenshot has been released, or a video, an audio file, nothing. You can also notice that, in the conversation Magistrum showed above, the time of the messages has something suspicious:

Mensagem de 22 de abril de 2016

13:04:13 Deltan: Caros, conversei com o FUX mais uma vez, hoje
Dear gentlemen, spoke with FUX once again, today

13:04:13 Deltan: Reservado, é claro: O Min Fux disse quase espontaneamente que Teori fez
queda de braço com Moro e viu que se queimou, e que o tom da resposta do Moro depois foi
ótimo. Disse para contarmos com ele para o que precisarmos, mais uma vez. Só faltou, como
bom carioca, chamar-me pra ir à casa dele rs. Mas os sinais foram ótimos. Falei da importância
de nos protegermos como instituições
Reserved, of course: The Min[inister] Fux said almost spontaneously that Teori wrestled Moro and got burned, and that Moro's following response tone afterwards was great. Said to count on him for what we need, once again. All that was left, like a good carioca[Person from Rio de Janeiro], invite me to his home lol. But the signals were great. Talked about the importance of protecting ourselves as institutions.

13:04:13 Deltan: Em especial no novo governo
Specially in the new government

13:06:55 Moro: Excelente. In Fux we trust
Execellent. In Fux we trust

13:13:48 Deltan: Kkk
lol

Notice how Deltan sends 3 messages, one them quite big, not only on the same minute, but also in the same second(13:04:13). Now, I consider myself a fast typer, but this is a whole new level of fast typing. Jokes aside, that could mean two things, either it's a fake conversation forged by the "hackers", supported by the fact that we don't have any screenshots so far. Or Deltan could have said that to someone else, and then redirected the messages to Moro, which then involves a third person, which then, involves yet more investigation into it. From my perspective, either it is all fake, or it's even worse that we think.


EDIT: Hello Magistrum, long time no see...
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 02:33:13 pm by GPeter »
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Magistrum

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Re: Latin American Politics: Venezuelan Civil Unrest
« Reply #828 on: June 13, 2019, 03:03:37 pm »

Hey there, how's life been treating ya? Ready for the general strike tomorrow?

First (Correct me if I'm wrong) they upright claimed to have gotten that information with the help of hackers,
They didn't claim that in article. It was claimed by some of the current government supporters that it was obtained illegally in order to render it unusable for legally persecuting the participants of the conversation.

Notice how Deltan sends 3 messages, one them quite big, not only on the same minute, but also in the same second(13:04:13). Now, I consider myself a fast typer, but this is a whole new level of fast typing. Jokes aside, that could mean two things, either it's a fake conversation forged by the "hackers", supported by the fact that we don't have any screenshots so far. Or Deltan could have said that to someone else, and then redirected the messages to Moro, which then involves a third person, which then, involves yet more investigation into it.
Yes, current understanding is that he was coordinating with fellow prosecutors in the case in a separate chat group of the persecution.(Which Moro wasn't part of, since he was the judge). It is implied in the start: "Dear gentlemen", that he was talking to many people. He sent it to that group and them forwarded to Moro. Since he was using Telegram, the time stamp on the messages is the time when he forwarded them.
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GPeter

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Re: Latin American Politics: Venezuelan Civil Unrest
« Reply #829 on: June 13, 2019, 03:43:28 pm »

Hey there, how's life been treating ya? Ready for the general strike tomorrow?

First (Correct me if I'm wrong) they upright claimed to have gotten that information with the help of hackers,
They didn't claim that in article. It was claimed by some of the current government supporters that it was obtained illegally in order to render it unusable for legally persecuting the participants of the conversation.

Notice how Deltan sends 3 messages, one them quite big, not only on the same minute, but also in the same second(13:04:13). Now, I consider myself a fast typer, but this is a whole new level of fast typing. Jokes aside, that could mean two things, either it's a fake conversation forged by the "hackers", supported by the fact that we don't have any screenshots so far. Or Deltan could have said that to someone else, and then redirected the messages to Moro, which then involves a third person, which then, involves yet more investigation into it.
Yes, current understanding is that he was coordinating with fellow prosecutors in the case in a separate chat group of the persecution.(Which Moro wasn't part of, since he was the judge). It is implied in the start: "Dear gentlemen", that he was talking to many people. He sent it to that group and them forwarded to Moro. Since he was using Telegram, the time stamp on the messages is the time when he forwarded them.

Ok thanks. So that leaves me with only one suspection. Why don't we have any screenshots? I need screenshots dammit!

Honestly though, this is something I used to talk about with my father and we both agreed with it. I still believe that Lula is corrupt and deserve jail, I mean, so many people close to him arrested, he can't be the "saint guy" of the group. But he did suffer some chasing, I don't think Bolsonaro would've won the elections if Lula was competing. It makes me sad though, that we had so many good options (Álvaro Dias and João Amoedo being my favorites) other than those two, and the people still decided to go with them.


Hey there, how's life been treating ya? Ready for the general strike tomorrow?

Sorry, did not catch the reference there...
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 03:45:01 pm by GPeter »
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Yeah, there's plenty of information out there, but you don't need that information to form an opinion and then defend it to the death.
Hey, don't be like that. Your life never had any meaning in the first place!

Magistrum

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Re: Latin American Politics: Venezuelan Civil Unrest
« Reply #830 on: June 14, 2019, 07:51:34 am »

Ok thanks. So that leaves me with only one suspection. Why don't we have any screenshots? I need screenshots dammit!
We are all waiting on it, but people suspect it being a backup download from the telegram website, and it only spits out a txt, so the screenshots would be quite disappointing. It is unlikely they are holding the guy's phone.

Hey there, how's life been treating ya? Ready for the general strike tomorrow?
Sorry, did not catch the reference there...
Greve geral mano! I already gave my guys the day off, nothing will get done today, I'm sure. The mobilization in my city will be one block away from my shop.
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GPeter

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Re: Latin American Politics: Venezuelan Civil Unrest
« Reply #831 on: June 14, 2019, 08:04:02 am »

Hey there, how's life been treating ya? Ready for the general strike tomorrow?
Sorry, did not catch the reference there...
Greve geral mano! I already gave my guys the day off, nothing will get done today, I'm sure. The mobilization in my city will be one block away from my shop.

OHH, right! I'm not much into the them because 1_ I work in a Shipping Company (In the offices, not in the trucks) and 2_ I study at night on a Little Course (Got it? Haha kill me) and they barely pay attention to that. And also I live in a small city, 120k habitants...
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Yeah, there's plenty of information out there, but you don't need that information to form an opinion and then defend it to the death.
Hey, don't be like that. Your life never had any meaning in the first place!
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