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Author Topic: Science Thread (and !!SCIENCE!! Thread!)  (Read 23784 times)

dragdeler

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Re: Science Thread (and !!SCIENCE!! Thread!)
« Reply #495 on: September 29, 2019, 12:34:21 pm »

We allready did, there are apes that use sign language, other have been to taught to use a keyboard with about 300 words on it. (kanzi the chimpanzee, koko the gorilla etc)


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Itís possible to think without saying what is being thought, itís possible to reason without saying the path for the reasoning.

I see what you mean but I would classify that more as intuition, in the sense that in one is familiar enough with the thought process to not having to "think each word out loud"... It's fair to assume that hawks do something comparable when they dive. Dialectic would be more like the hawk talking to itself: it is as if my body was built to do this, so why should I ever bother to hunt any other way?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 12:35:56 pm by dragdeler »
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: Science Thread (and !!SCIENCE!! Thread!)
« Reply #496 on: September 29, 2019, 12:45:44 pm »

We allready did, there are apes that use sign language, other have been to taught to use a keyboard with about 300 words on it. (kanzi the chimpanzee, koko the gorilla etc)


Quote
Itís possible to think without saying what is being thought, itís possible to reason without saying the path for the reasoning.

I see what you mean but I would classify that more as intuition, in the sense that in one is familiar enough with the thought process to not having to "think each word out loud"... It's fair to assume that hawks do something comparable when they dive. Dialectic would be more like the hawk talking to itself: it is as if my body was built to do this, so why should I ever bother to hunt any other way?
Ah
We canít read thoughts from entities other than ourselves, so we canít say for sure other animals donít think to themselves in this manner.

dragdeler

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Re: Science Thread (and !!SCIENCE!! Thread!)
« Reply #498 on: September 29, 2019, 01:54:26 pm »

well if they do, doggo dialectic must be genuinly adorable

Reelya

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Re: Science Thread (and !!SCIENCE!! Thread!)
« Reply #499 on: October 17, 2019, 05:06:28 am »

This is kinda interesting:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-zoo-blob/paris-zoo-unveils-the-blob-an-organism-with-no-brain-but-720-sexes-idUSKBN1WV2AD

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PARIS (Reuters) - A Paris zoo showcased a mysterious new organism on Wednesday, dubbed the ďblobĒ, a yellowish unicellular small living being which looks like a fungus but acts like an animal.

This newest exhibit of the Paris Zoological Park, which goes on display to the public on Saturday, has no mouth, no stomach, no eyes, yet it can detect food and digest it.

The blob also has almost 720 sexes, can move without legs or wings and heals itself in two minutes if cut in half.

ďThe blob is a living being which belongs to one of natureís mysteriesĒ, said Bruno David, director of the Paris Museum of Natural History, of which the Zoological Park is part.

ďIt surprises us because it has no brain but is able to learn (...) and if you merge two blobs, the one that has learned will transmit its knowledge to the other,Ē David added.

The blob was named after a 1958 science-fiction horror B-movie, starring a young Steve McQueen, in which an alien life form - The Blob - consumes everything in its path in a small Pennsylvania town.

ďWe know for sure it is not a plant but we donít really if itís an animal or a fungus,Ē said David.

ďIt behaves very surprisingly for something that looks like a mushroom (...) it has the behavior of an animal, it is able to learn.Ē

It's this stuff btw
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physarum_polycephalum

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Physarum polycephalum has been shown to exhibit characteristics similar to those seen in single-celled creatures and eusocial insects. For example, a team of Japanese and Hungarian researchers have shown P. polycephalum can solve the Shortest path problem. When grown in a maze with oatmeal at two spots, P. polycephalum retracts from everywhere in the maze, except the shortest route connecting the two food sources. When presented with more than two food sources, P. polycephalum apparently solves a more complicated transportation problem. With more than two sources, the amoeba also produces efficient networks. In a 2010 paper, oatflakes were dispersed to represent Tokyo and 36 surrounding towns. P. polycephalum created a network similar to the existing train system, and "with comparable efficiency, fault tolerance, and cost". Similar results have been shown based on road networks in the United Kingdom and the Iberian peninsula (i.e., Spain and Portugal). Some researchers claim that P. polycephalum is even able to solve the NP-hard Steiner minimum tree problem.

EDIT: it's also unclear what they mean by "720 sexes". This is a single-celled organism. How do they even define a sex for one of those?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 05:15:17 am by Reelya »
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: Science Thread (and !!SCIENCE!! Thread!)
« Reply #500 on: October 17, 2019, 05:20:57 am »

Reuters is a news organization, not a scientific journal. I'm not sure where they got "sexes" either. Time to check sources...I can't find their source list, do they have sources?

dragdeler

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Re: Science Thread (and !!SCIENCE!! Thread!)
« Reply #501 on: October 17, 2019, 05:27:52 am »

In french "le sexe" can mean gender as well as genital. So I'm assuming they meant it has 720 reproductive organs and Reuters translated that poorly.

Bumber

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Re: Science Thread (and !!SCIENCE!! Thread!)
« Reply #502 on: October 17, 2019, 05:30:48 am »

In french "le sexe" can mean gender as well as genital. So I'm assuming they meant it has 720 reproductive organs and Reuters translated that poorly.

I doubt that. The individual cells reproduce asexually, and it would be odd for a colony of any size to maintain exactly 720 reproductive organs.

There are probably 720 unique sexes that determine compatibility with a subset of the other sexes.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 06:10:16 am by Bumber »
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. Was this inevitable (Y/y)?

dragdeler

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Re: Science Thread (and !!SCIENCE!! Thread!)
« Reply #503 on: October 17, 2019, 06:17:05 am »

 ;D I'd imagine it more as sexually active tissue capable of leaking or sucking up, stuff. IDK about the blob but what I do know is how often french sentence structures, and false friends seep into translation... in these cases a robot voice could read it without the accent and one could still tell the source language. These people are surprisingly bad at learning a second language  ;D.


I find it hard to believe that two blobs could meet, check all the possible combinations of sexes, and go like: "eh no luck, guess there are plenty of fish in the sea". In that case I'd find it more plausible to believe that that particular blob carries the genetic material of the 719 other blobs it met or stems from, and that if genetically compared and put in relation to all other species it would appear like they're different "sexes" but only because the blob uses epigenetics to be any possible iteration of itself without the need for a brain. (this second paragraph is pure speculation)

Naturegirl1999

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Re: Science Thread (and !!SCIENCE!! Thread!)
« Reply #504 on: October 17, 2019, 06:29:46 am »

Slime molds are interesting

feelotraveller

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Re: Science Thread (and !!SCIENCE!! Thread!)
« Reply #505 on: October 18, 2019, 02:15:06 am »

EDIT: it's also unclear what they mean by "720 sexes". This is a single-celled organism. How do they even define a sex for one of those?

I was just reading about this.  :)  The comment here: https://www.cnet.com/news/paris-zoo-unveils-mysterious-nightmare-slime-dubbed-the-blob/ is

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And if you're hung up on the 720 sexes, well, that's just a fancy way to sell a story.

"They're not really sexes, they are mating types," says Latty. "Whether or not a slime mold can mate with another slime mold depends on its mating type which is determined by particular genes."

(Latty in above quote is "Tanya Latty, a slime mold researcher at the University of Sydney".)

Oh, the possibilities of pr0n in the slime mould world!
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: Science Thread (and !!SCIENCE!! Thread!)
« Reply #506 on: October 18, 2019, 07:27:22 am »

So could sexually reproducing animals and plants be considered to have 2 "mating types?" Or is mating type and sex different?

wierd

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Re: Science Thread (and !!SCIENCE!! Thread!)
« Reply #507 on: October 18, 2019, 07:36:19 am »

More like what is present in some nematodes, where you have 3 "genders".  Male, Female, and Hermaphrodite.
https://www.sciencealert.com/a-worm-with-three-sexes-and-a-tolerance-for-arsenic-found-thriving-in-a-nearly-lifeless-lake

This gives several "viable" combinations,  Male + female, Female + Hermaphrodite, Male + Hermaphrodite, and Hermaphrodite + Hermaphrodite.

In the case of this slime mold, there are probably biochemically incompatible combinations, which is what gives rise to "mating types"-- For an example in larger species, see also "ring species"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species

While there are several types which are mutually exclusive, gene flow can still occur. Because the slime mold is a composite organism of several (potentially genetically distinct) single celled organisms acting in aggregate in complex ways, that gene flow within the assembly is important.
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: Science Thread (and !!SCIENCE!! Thread!)
« Reply #508 on: December 02, 2019, 01:20:52 am »

I found on Wikipedia and I canít find what the L and T stand for in the Stellar Classification article that the image was found in. Did I just miss it?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 01:37:29 am by Naturegirl1999 »
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Science Thread (and !!SCIENCE!! Thread!)
« Reply #509 on: December 02, 2019, 01:55:24 am »

Did I just miss it?
Yes. See 'extended spectral types'. Pt. 5.2.
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