Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Lagslayer]

http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bills_detail.do?locale=en&BillID=4479&detailPage=bills_detail_the_bill

[ChairmanPoo]

Care to give a synopsis?

[smjjames]

Not being familiar with Ontario law and it looks like a child welfare law thing regarding adoption, foster care, and juvenile detention, could you explain what you mean by 'well, this happened'?

Edit: What chairmanpoo said less verbosely.

[ChairmanPoo]

Well, this just happened


https://img.memecdn.com/Sense-This-picture-makes-none_o_90856.jpg

[Frumple]

... yeah, without context I can't particularly parse how much of this thing is new or old or particularly out of line for previous applicable laws or what.

That said. Largely aside to whatever lag's trying to point out, anyone know exactly what the difference between an isolation room and a de-escalation room is? No particularly context or good grounds to say how sketchy (or not) much of the rest of it is, but I definitely noticed that and I can't quite figure out if there's actually a difference or it's just orwellian as all hell.

E: Oh. Little checking suggests is a family services type of thing overhaul that, among other things, updates the applicable law to be in line with international human rights. Apparently the addition of stuff like sexual orientation and gender identity as considerations for possible intervention is causing parts of canada to flip the fuck out. Seems they're convinced the law is going to be used to steal children from christian families or somethin' like that? Thing's long enough I'm not terribly interested in reading through to find out how full of shit what parts of canada's media are on the bill, honestly.

[wierd]

Devil is in the details. Requires actual analysis, not bland dismissal.  The push to protect darling innocent children from their mindcontrolling parents has been a growing trend of late-- the problem is, state endorsed education and upbringing is also very deleterious to a culture.

Bland dismissal is how you enable over-reach. It does not matter that most cases of outrage are MoralPanic! based. The allegations need to be properly investigated.

[Frumple]

So, usual hysteria.

With an apparent side of milking it for income! Actually kinda' neat even mild poking around mentioned that a fair amount of folks riling people up on either side of the argument are making bank off it. So not just hysteria, good isp. Capitalist hysteria, managed and sold with some degree of competence.

... someone has to be making a doctoral dissertation on the means and methods of that kind of market in the modern era. If not, they need to get on it -- that'd have to be like five or six different fooists wrapped up in one subject.

[smjjames]

A synopsis of what lagslayer is going on about would be useful. Some of the minority group stuff could have people object over it, actually, there's lots of stuff special interest groups could freak out about in that. Probably the only thing that stands out to me is the bit about Protestant children only going to Protestant foster/adopter families and Roman Catholic only going to Roman Catholic.

I guess that's the 'steal from Christian families' part?

[Frumple]

Nah, near as I could tell this bill actually like... fixed that, or at least didn't mess much up on that specific front. Priority is (now?) given to same/similar religious beliefs but that's about it, just priority. If no appropriate family is available, the search for a foster or whatever would continue down the metaphorical list.

Steal from christian families part seems to be about the gender identity stuff being brought in, from what idle perusal of news article titles/summaries could parse. Apparently someone or another in canada is convinced the government is going to use that angle to take children away from families teaching traditional gender roles. Doesn't seem to be whole of the entire kerfluffle by any means, but that specific part of it seems to be something roughly along those lines.

[smjjames]

So it's the usual "Christians moaning about loss of traditional family values or traditional gender roles" angle then.

[Frumple]

Hell if I know, ha. It's that in part, if nothing else, but exactly how much of a part and how much just what the media's seized on I couldn't tell you without doing more looking I really don't care enough about the subject to do.

[Lagslayer]

So it's the usual "Christians moaning about loss of traditional family values or traditional gender roles" angle then.

Has it not occurred to you that this could just as easily be used to take children away from gays and muslims?

[IronyOwl]

So, usual hysteria.

With an apparent side of milking it for income! Actually kinda' neat even mild poking around mentioned that a fair amount of folks riling people up on either side of the argument are making bank off it. So not just hysteria, good isp. Capitalist hysteria, managed and sold with some degree of competence.

... someone has to be making a doctoral dissertation on the means and methods of that kind of market in the modern era. If not, they need to get on it -- that'd have to be like five or six different fooists wrapped up in one subject.

This is a fascinating and horrifying prospect. Soulless scientific analysis of it would be magnificent.

[Neonivek]

There is a LOT to read there... and some synopsis over what I am supposed to be up in arms about would be helpful since

One of the additional purposes in the current Act is to recognize that services to Indian and native children and families should be provided in a manner that recognizes their culture, heritage and traditions, and the concept of the extended family.

Is a good thing.

[smjjames]

So it's the usual "Christians moaning about loss of traditional family values or traditional gender roles" angle then.

Has it not occurred to you that this could just as easily be used to take children away from gays and muslims?

Of course it could be, I was just saying that it's the angle of those saying it'll 'steal children from christian families'.