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Author Topic: Biome Manipulator, a world gen/pre embark biome region manipulation tool  (Read 22174 times)

PatrikLundell

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Re: Biome Manipulator, a world gen/pre embark biome region manipulation tool
« Reply #120 on: January 14, 2020, 04:30:17 am »

Okay, thanks, that's more or less what I was afraid of.  I'll take a look at the region manipulator tool and see if it can do what I'm aiming for.  If not I may have to resort to some DFHack Lua script to fake something close to it.
In order to hack biomes in your embark you need:
- That biome present in a neighboring world tile (because that's how references to biomes work: they refer to the "official" biome of a world tile, which can be their own tile or one of the 8 surrounding ones.
- If I remember correctly, you also need to have the biome as the main one of the target Mid Level Tile or one of its 8 neighbors (where the tile refers to the appropriate world tile). The easiest would probably be to have your center embark tile (assuming a 3*3) being the "safe" one, which ought to be possible to arrange with the Region Manipulator.
- You could then push it further by "pruning" the tile with a script of your own. Note, though, that you'd have to hack every in-game tile on every Z level individually.
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Aelwen

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Re: Biome Manipulator, a world gen/pre embark biome region manipulation tool
« Reply #121 on: January 27, 2021, 03:41:59 am »

Could someone explain how to use it right? I tried to change layers during world generation but the results didn't stick and during embark they returned to the original.
And how to change several biomes in a region?
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 04:39:06 am by Aelwen »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Biome Manipulator, a world gen/pre embark biome region manipulation tool
« Reply #122 on: January 27, 2021, 05:13:34 am »

Could someone explain how to use it right? I tried to change layers during world generation but the results didn't stick and during embark they returned to the original.
And how to change several biomes in a region?
I've performed a number of changes during world gen, but I don't think I've tried changing geo biomes (which is what I think you mean by layers). If that doesn't work (which I thought it would), change the geo biomes immediately before embark instead.
Note that if your change was intended to affect what materials a civ has access to you have to change the geo biome before the civ is created, as the resources available to a civ are statically determined when the starting site for the civ is created.

The biome of a world tile is derived from the the parameters for that world tile, and DF creates regions out of contiguous stretches of world tiles that have the same general biome type. However, the process doesn't work in the other direction: you can't manipulate regions to affect the biome of the world tiles. Thus, you'd have to change one world tile at a time.
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Aelwen

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Re: Biome Manipulator, a world gen/pre embark biome region manipulation tool
« Reply #123 on: January 27, 2021, 07:09:32 am »

Can you describe it in details.

 I begin the generation. Do I need to pause it before history generation and use Biome Manipulator?

I want to make soil deeper and change granite layers for marble.

I did it but when I embark the layers keep unchanged. I tried to change geo before embark. it didn't work.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Biome Manipulator, a world gen/pre embark biome region manipulation tool
« Reply #124 on: January 27, 2021, 08:01:31 am »

In order for it to affect civs you need to change the geo biome before the civ's first site is created, but after the geology has been put in place. History starts with the civ starting sites being generated.

Have you double checked that you changed the correct geo biome? The Mid Level Tiles (the ones used for x*y embark size) "belong" to the geo biome of either the world tile they're in or one of the 8 neighboring tiles (and different tiles of the embark can "belong" to different world tiles that may or may not belong to different regions). Thus, if you embark close to the edges of the world tile chances are that those tiles belong to the biome of a neighboring world tile. To change such tiles, you'd change the geo biome(s) of those neighboring tiles (although neighboring tiles often belong to the same region, and thus would be affected by the original change).

If you still can't get it to work, could you provide me with a world and embark location in it that doesn't work (the world gen parameters use plus the location of the embark would work, although I can get that info out of an embark where it didn't work if you've got problems getting that info). That would allow me to try to investigate what's happening.
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Aelwen

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Re: Biome Manipulator, a world gen/pre embark biome region manipulation tool
« Reply #125 on: January 27, 2021, 08:18:02 am »

Quote
In order for it to affect civs you need to change the geo biome before the civ's first site is created, but after the geology has been put in place. History starts with the civ starting sites being generated.
The world generates so quickly I don't have time to pause before history starts.

This world and embark  from this link http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175538.msg8238988#msg8238988
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Biome Manipulator, a world gen/pre embark biome region manipulation tool
« Reply #126 on: January 27, 2021, 12:46:04 pm »

Yes, I usually use a tool to interrupt world gen at the place(s) I want to interfere in.

I generated the world, manipulated the geo biome of the embark world tile and the one to the east (the one to the south has the same geo biome as the embark world tile), covering all the 3 major biomes (haven't checked if there are any incursions).

I extended the last soil layer by 2 and replaced all granite ones with marble and then dug straight down. It turned out my dig site was in the neutral biome (the one to the east). The top 4 soil layers were eroded away, so I had only the two "extra" layers. However, the marble did appear where the granite was originally (the first marble layer: I hit a cavern before reaching the next one).

The thing that doesn't work as initially expected is the soil, which remains 2 layers deep even when additional Z levels are added. Further investigation showed that this was because the elevation was so high that only two levels were permitted by DF's erosion logic (there are 4 levels of soil defined in the original geo biome). Hacking the 9 world tiles to lower the elevation deepens the soil, but does also cause the brook to change its course.
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Aelwen

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Re: Biome Manipulator, a world gen/pre embark biome region manipulation tool
« Reply #127 on: January 27, 2021, 01:12:10 pm »

Quote
Hacking the 9 world tiles to lower the elevation deepens the soil, but does also cause the brook to change its course.

How did you do it?

Ad the second. If the world tile consists of 2-3 different biomes how can I change evilness in them? Or only one of them? I often want to create an embark place of 3-4 biomes but how?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Biome Manipulator, a world gen/pre embark biome region manipulation tool
« Reply #128 on: January 28, 2021, 04:52:24 am »

I went into manipulation to change the elevation of the world tiles, and evilness is a parameter of the world tile as well, so it can be changed in the same sub menu.

3-4 biomes in the same embark is reasonably common, so you can search for that using the Embark Assistant plugin. 5-6 is increasingly unusual, and I don't think I've seen 7-9 happen naturally.

That, of course, leads to unnatural occurrences: Using a PSV world it's possible to get 9 biomes by having the embark world tile and each of the 8 surrounding ones be tailored to have one biome each. Using that as a start, you can probably find embarks with a reasonable number of biomes in the embark world tile, but if you want all 9 you'll probably have to hack another level, namely the Mid Level Tiles. You can use the Region Manipulator to do that (I use my own private tool that generates a 3*3 embark location with 9 biomes at a the same place every time).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Aelwen

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Re: Biome Manipulator, a world gen/pre embark biome region manipulation tool
« Reply #129 on: January 28, 2021, 06:33:17 am »

Quote
(I use my own private tool that generates a 3*3 embark location with 9 biomes at a the same place every time).

Is it possible to use for 4x4 embarks?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Biome Manipulator, a world gen/pre embark biome region manipulation tool
« Reply #130 on: January 28, 2021, 07:56:30 am »

Yes. All it does is to change the MLTs to have biomes that more or less form wedges towards the "middle" (there's an even number of tiles in both directions, so I had to chose one of the 4), with the center tile having the native biome and each of the surrounding tiles getting the biome of the world tile in that direction. With a 4*4 embark you'd have to chose which two sides you want to expand (and thus which biomes to get more tiles of). You could also follow it up with Region Manipulator fine tuning of the biomes.
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