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[prefuzek]

And how were you planning on figuring out whether Hector was scummy or not, Softballing and FoS-ing? Why not vote and grill him? Basically, you're still not really doing anything that looks like you're at all interested in figuring out who the mafia is.

You should use your 1-shot because it gives you the most information at the start of the game (before people die, switch roles etc). I mean, it would have been useless now anyway, but these are weird circumstances.

The 'hm' makes it look like you're thinking about something, which is clearly not true since you just reiterated what Hector said about it here:

I was answering hector's question. The first of my two sentences:
"That they didn't go far enough in examining your statement."
Which was the answer to hector's question.

Exactly. Hector asked you a question, and you answered it with Hector's own answer.

I didn't use voteblock on TDS. And my role switched, so I can't do that again.

Why didn't TDS's vote count last round, then? Was he hammered before he voted himself?

Yep. Did you read the thread?

Looks like it's just because the hammer came before TheDarkStar's post, so the post wasn't counted. Teneb?

Correct.

[Persus13]

Day ends 22:00 BRT of the 12th of September.

Is this a typo? Because that means we'd have over a week left in the day.

Also where is Deus Asmoth?

More later today.

[FallacyofUrist]

And how were you planning on figuring out whether Hector was scummy or not, Softballing and FoS-ing? Why not vote and grill him? Basically, you're still not really doing anything that looks like you're at all interested in figuring out who the mafia is.

By observing his behavior, of course. So far he's looking like town, though I'm still not sure how using his Dirty Bomb ability helped the town or helped him win.

You should use your 1-shot because it gives you the most information at the start of the game (before people die, switch roles etc). I mean, it would have been useless now anyway, but these are weird circumstances.

There's also the option of saving it for the next round, or waiting until a few people die. It would actually tell me more if there were fewer people. Arms Dealer counts the number of kills in the game. If I were to use it with three people left and I got a 2 kills result, I would know there were two killing roles left and only two killing roles left, one of them being the King of the Mafia... and whoever claims a non-killing role other than me is King Mafia.
~~~

Exactly. Hector asked you a question, and you answered it with Hector's own answer.

Does the fact that it's hector's answer make it wrong?
~~~

Yep. Did you read the thread?

Not well enough, apparently.

[hector13]

Why does my use of the dirty bomb bother you so much? It's neither town- or scum-motivated. I chose it to use it as soon as possible, two games ago. It doesn't tell you anything about my alignment.

prefuzek: What does it tell you about his alignment that FoU did not use his informative one-shot immediately upon the open of play?

[prefuzek]

And how were you planning on figuring out whether Hector was scummy or not, Softballing and FoS-ing? Why not vote and grill him? Basically, you're still not really doing anything that looks like you're at all interested in figuring out who the mafia is.

By observing his behavior, of course. So far he's looking like town, though I'm still not sure how using his Dirty Bomb ability helped the town or helped him win.

But you already thought he was town. So why FoS him, if you think he's town and you're not going to put pressure on him? And why do/did you think he's town - he plays well and makes few mistakes, even (I'm assuming) when he's scum.

There's also the option of saving it for the next round, or waiting until a few people die. It would actually tell me more if there were fewer people. Arms Dealer counts the number of kills in the game. If I were to use it with three people left and I got a 2 kills result, I would know there were two killing roles left and only two killing roles left, one of them being the King of the Mafia... and whoever claims a non-killing role other than me is King Mafia.

But let's say in this circumstance you instead used it at the beginning of the game, and there are no role-switching shenanigans. Since you get to see death-flips, by the point there are three people left, you know the same amount of information - but you also knew it earlier.

Does the fact that it's hector's answer make it wrong?

No, it makes it lazy and over-cautious.

Spoiler: For Hector, do not read FallacyOfUrist (click to show/hide)

prefuzek: What does it tell you about his alignment that FoU did not use his informative one-shot immediately upon the open of play?

Not a lot, since it could easily just be a mistake. But it's an anti-town move, which still raises alarm bells. Speaking of which, Fallacy's kinda right that using dirty bomb is anti-town, since people's original roles are carefully chosen. Who do you think it helps more: King Mafia or town?

(I told you not to read this FoU)

Persus: How late is later today?

[FallacyofUrist]

It's like putting a claim in invisible text and then saying don't read it.

It doesn't work.
~~~
Also, I can't quote your post without seeing inside the spoiler. So ugh.

[1] I said I was leaning, not entirely sure, town. And I thought he was town because I couldn't see flaws in his reasoning(though I'm still not sure why he used his Dirty Bomb ability) and he was scum hunting.

[2] There is that. Didn't think of that.

[3] It was the answer I would have given even if it wasn't hector's answer.
~~~

Why does my use of the dirty bomb bother you so much? It's neither town- or scum-motivated. I chose it to use it as soon as possible, two games ago. It doesn't tell you anything about my alignment.

You choose to use it as soon as possible... two games ago... so you use it now?

[Persus13]

prefuzek:

Persus: How late is later today?

How does right now sound? I'm a little busy, sorry about that.

But anyway Fallacy is 100% scum. This post basically says "I'm going to be as cautious as I can, and please don't anybody notice me".

I'm inclined to agree with you. I'm seeing parallels to Round 1, where Fallacy was more interested in retaliating against the player who wronged him than in finding the King Mafia.

hector13:

Pfft, I'm going to continue pickling my lover lol I didn't kill her no really I didn't stop saying that you bastard I didn't do it it was like that when I got there the beer no I'm not celebrating I didn't notice what's that over there BLAM liver for the evening.

If anyone quickhammers Persus they're obviously scum. If not, precise prefuzek is the man we're after.

Persus should convince me to vote elsewhere. Prefuzek should convince me not to.

So how did this work out for you?

What do you think of prefuzek confusing who I was saying would be scum between Persus and a hypothetical quick-hammerer?

This question was directed at Fallacy, but I think you were being kind of vague, and prefuzek's request for clarification was warranted.

FallacyofUrist

Okay, what ze heck.

My role changed. I used to be an Arms Dealer, 1-shot kill count during the day, but now I'm [REDACTED]. If any of you are an Arms Dealer now, or know what my new role is, please claim. Something funny's going on.

Did you even read the thread before posting this? Literally everyone commented on the role changing thing. Why do you care more about retaliating for the role change then finding the King Mafia?

hector13: Why choose Dirty Bomb as a role? And why use it now? How does that help the town?

Why are you attacking hector for a choice he made before the game started? Also:

Round 2:
-Shakerag - Dirty Bomber (Town)
Round 5:
-Shakerag - Dirty Bomber (Town)

[1] So you think I'm suspicious enough for an FoS for my choice of role two games ago? Cool, cool.

[2] It's a one-shot and it messes with people's plans for the game at large. I want to win, not have people be comfortable with what they have, and I'm okay with being vanilla once it's done.

[1] The suspicion is more from the fact that using the Dirty Bomb ability doesn't help town. Unless it does somehow(in which case, please explain)?

Why does the Dirty Bomb ability not help town? Its not like town loses their roles. They may get a worse one, but so will the King Mafia.

Hector's correct here that this is an awful FoS, but what's even worse is that it's an FoS. Why not put your vote down? We're 12 posts into the game here - it's still basically RVS.

I was considering as to whether or not hector was scummy enough to vote.

And your decision?

To sum up. DA is a no show, Prefuzek seems town. Hector13 is drawing a lot of attention to himself, and is being fairly open, which are good signs, but I'm finding his hammer gambit a bit weird. However, Fallacy has done nothing today to find the King of the Mafia, and is more interested in a halfhearted retaliation against Hector for changing his role.

[hector13]

@Persus

I share a lot of people's great distaste for RVS, and like to get out of it quickly. I did something to make people respond which I felt was aggressive but relatively low-risk. The idea was to get people talking, and I managed it with 40% of non-hector players, so... wasn't great, but could've been worse.

You disappearing was interesting, though not unexpected. I would expect town to be quite defensive, even if in your case it would just be "well, these are RVS votes" so complete silence, I feel, is a bit more of a scum-leaning thing to do.

Not really ready to end the day, so... let's hope DA shows up.

[Deus Asmoth]

General announcements: I'm a Dirty Bomber now, so if people want to chaos warp their roles again, make a vote for it or something.

hector, because I'm a little annoyed about the rolechange. Unvote.

hector

Totes just you changing things to suit you post-hoc, man. /s

DA: happy with your new role?

Not too much, but I'll survive.

Persus

Deus Asmoth, hector1: Welcome back into the fray. How do you plan on finding Mafia this round?

In a perfect world I'd get to keep my role for more than zero rounds and also get to stay alive long enough to make use of it. Aside from that I guess I'll keep muddling around.

FOU:[/color] do you have a scum pick at the minute?

[FallacyofUrist]

Also, I apparently need to vote once per day to avoid being poked, so hector13.

FOU:[/color] do you have a scum pick at the minute?

No, though it would help if you and Persus did some more posting. As for town picks, though, so far, hector and prefuzek are looking fairly town as a result of their scum hunting(of me).
~~~

Did you even read the thread before posting this? Literally everyone commented on the role changing thing. Why do you care more about retaliating for the role change then finding the King Mafia?

I don't care more about stating that my role changed as well than finding the King Mafia, it's just what I choose to open with.

Why are you attacking hector for a choice he made before the game started? Also:

Round 2:
-Shakerag - Dirty Bomber (Town)
Round 5:
-Shakerag - Dirty Bomber (Town)

It's not so much that he choose Dirty Bomber, but that he choose to use it now, at the beginning of the round. And his justification is funny. It helps him win... how?

Why does the Dirty Bomb ability not help town? Its not like town loses their roles. They may get a worse one, but so will the King Mafia.

Mainly because it disrupts planning. There are more town whose plans are disrupted than mafia whose plans are disrupted.

And your decision?

So far, hector's scum hunting outweighs his non-town use of his Dirty Bomb ability. Town read.

To sum up. DA is a no show, Prefuzek seems town. Hector13 is drawing a lot of attention to himself, and is being fairly open, which are good signs, but I'm finding his hammer gambit a bit weird. However, Fallacy has done nothing today to find the King of the Mafia, and is more interested in a halfhearted retaliation against Hector for changing his role.

Actually, I appreciate that hector changed my role, my current role is a bit better, come to think about it. I just don't find using a Dirty Bomb ability to be town.

[prefuzek]

Hey Deus Asmoth, just popping in so you don't get anti-lurked to death? Shouldn't you have a bit more content after missing ~3 days of game? Also, what are you doing with your vote?

Incidentally, I would be totally okay with a new role.

Hector, What do you mean by this? I have really no idea what you're trying to say.

You disappearing was interesting, though not unexpected. I would expect town to be quite defensive, even if in your case it would just be "well, these are RVS votes" so complete silence, I feel, is a bit more of a scum-leaning thing to do.

Fallacy: Wow, really wasn't expecting you to actually not read it. I mostly meant it as a joke.

I said I was leaning, not entirely sure, town. And I thought he was town because I couldn't see flaws in his reasoning(though I'm still not sure why he used his Dirty Bomb ability) and he was scum hunting.

Yeah, so if you weren't sure, why did you treat him as if you knew he was town (i.e. not voting/pressuring)? Do you have confidence in your ability to tell when Hector is scum?

Teneb: When does day end?

[Deus Asmoth]

Should I? I don't know about you, but I don't magically generate content by not visiting the forum for a few days. And what I'm doing with my vote is taking into account that a few people seem to not want the day over yet, because otherwise I'd probably just have hammered FOU.

FOU: since the dirty bomb is less important to you than finding mafia, when are you planning to scum hunt someone who isn't hector?

[hector13]

Okay, so we're saying that the dirty bomb use is anti-town, but nobody has yet explained it. Anti-town /=/ scummy /pedant

How does it help scum as much or more than it hurts town? They get fucked up as well. By law of averages Town can get worse roles but there's four of you other than me, meaning four chances to get something good.

[meta-rant]I'm also frankly stunned why this is a thing we need to discuss. This is essentially a meta-game. I need to win as scum to win the game; why do I as a player - ignoring alignment - want my opponents to be comfortable? I'm confident in my day game, and consequently I'm happy to mess up everybody's night game, since I assume y'all chose something you think would be useful to your efforts to win the meta-game, and I'm less confident in my ability to divine whatever roles you chose.

Jesús H Christopher why do I need to explain this?[/meta-rant]

Also, I'm saying Persus' absence when they were L-1 was suspicious.

I don't want a new role... or do I!? /reverse psychology

[Persus13]

You disappearing was interesting, though not unexpected. I would expect town to be quite defensive, even if in your case it would just be "well, these are RVS votes" so complete silence, I feel, is a bit more of a scum-leaning thing to do.

My reaction to prefuzek's vote was a "this is an RVS vote". Then I disappeared because I moved back to college and had to deal with that. If I had posted, it would have probably been "this is weird, but I'm going to ignore it."

[FallacyofUrist]

I said I was leaning, not entirely sure, town. And I thought he was town because I couldn't see flaws in his reasoning(though I'm still not sure why he used his Dirty Bomb ability) and he was scum hunting.

Yeah, so if you weren't sure, why did you treat him as if you knew he was town (i.e. not voting/pressuring)? Do you have confidence in your ability to tell when Hector is scum?

I didn't vote him because I was leaning town on him. If I thought he was scummier, I probably would have voted him. No, I don't really have much confidence in my ability to tell when Hector's scum. He's a very good player. I haven't seen anything pointing to him being scum(other than the dirty bomb usage) so far, so either he's town or he's really good scum.
~~~

How does it help scum as much or more than it hurts town?

Planning disruption. There's more town planning going on than scum planning... and of course it doesn't do anything about the mafiakill, which is constant to being the King of the Mafia, I think.

I'm also frankly stunned why this is a thing we need to discuss. This is essentially a meta-game. I need to win as scum to win the game; why do I as a player - ignoring alignment - want my opponents to be comfortable? I'm confident in my day game, and consequently I'm happy to mess up everybody's night game, since I assume y'all chose something you think would be useful to your efforts to win the meta-game, and I'm less confident in my ability to divine whatever roles you chose.

That makes sense. Why didn't you do it earlier, then?

FOU: since the dirty bomb is less important to you than finding mafia, when are you planning to scum hunt someone who isn't hector?

Once the mess with hector is done(looks like it's calming down), or I can defeat my tunnel vision.