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Author Topic: Meaningfull insanity  (Read 960 times)

Grand Sage

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Meaningfull insanity
« on: July 27, 2017, 12:14:49 pm »

Well, sort of. We don't want them to be fully functional off course, but I think it would be awesome if for example stark raving mad dwarves could interact with the would more, like giving there fellow dwarves useless items or applying for meetings with your mayor. Perhaps even plotting to kill someone in there sleep (vampire style without the teeth)?

pros? cons? comments?
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NJW2000

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Re: Meaningfull insanity
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2017, 12:37:28 pm »

Lots of mad people are very sensible. Some of them don't even let on that the axe fairies are thirsty until the vital moment.

Dunno if this is planned, but definitely has some potential.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Meaningfull insanity
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2017, 05:58:36 pm »

I didn't see anything regarding this on the dev page, I agree with NJW2000 it definitely would greatly improve the game to have more depth in insanity, or at the very least offer more ways to interact with them. It'd be neat if you could for example have an asylum with a low chance of being able to nurse insane Dorfs back to good health (and possibly help keep healthy Dorfs mentally healthy), with the cost being that you have to keep a dedicated nursing workforce to keep feeding/cleaning the insane dorfs

Cons, not really sure if there any. I think as well, you're referring to what kind of behaviours mad dwarves express? I can think of a few examples that would present interesting ways to diversify madness, like stark raving mad dwarves occupying workshops to make strange artworks or just running around spitting at everyone

NW_Kohaku

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Re: Meaningfull insanity
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2017, 10:57:09 pm »

I think it would be better to state that the problem is that insanity is currently an all-or-nothing switch between fully functional dwarves that suddenly become homicidal/suicidal maniacs all at once, with zero transition.  (To use TV Tropes terms, it's the "Critical Existence Failure" problem, where a creature with 1 HP left is just as healthy and active as a full health creature, but instantly explodes in gore the moment they hit 0 HP, with no tiring or death throes outside of cutscenes.) 

Semi-recently, Toady introduced things like depression or obliviousness to be temporary-step warning signs, but even then, it's more just a warning before the snap, rather than a real progression of a disease.

What would be best is if there were a list of tiered psychological issues that could be recurring, such as Vaillant's categorization of defense mechanisms

When stressed, dwarves react with lower-tiered defense mechanisms to counteract the stress. 

Hence, you might have a progression like the following:
Tier 4 (normal, minor stress reaction) - Suppression (character delays reaction to stress by attempting to ignore it until they can find something that will dissipate their stress.)
Tier 3 (occasional, but not uncommon reaction to a stressful situation) - Dissosiation (Could be like current obliviousness, or have the dwarf simply not react to things they should, such as not running from hostile creatures.)
Tier 2 (reactions to severe or sustained stress / the warning stage) - Schizoid Fantasy (Character will act as though things are different from what they actually are.  A simple example would be treating a chair as though it were a mortal enemy and attack it.)
Tier 1 (critical stress levels) - Fugue (current Catatonic)

Each character would have a set of four tiers of defense mechanism, depending upon their personality, like the way that dwarves are currently split between berserkers or catatonic or melancholy dwarves. 

Dwarves act upon a tier of reaction any time they take a "stress shock" while at a level of stress that forces a particular response.  For example, a low-stressed dwarf only reacts to seeing a hated vermin by suppressing, but one already at danger levels reacts to seeing hated vermin by going into schizoid fantasy for a period, attacking someone or something random nearby in a tantrum until their overall stress isn't pushing them to such extreme reactions.

Likewise, each dwarf should have a specific "relaxation activity" that they specifically try to perform when stressed.  This might be appreciating their favorite door, or losing themselves trying to create a work of art with their mastered skill (if an appropriate one exists, and their goal in life involves mastering skills or creating art), or just getting plastered at the tavern.  A suppressing dwarf might, for example, react to a hated vermin by deciding to go do that favored relaxation activity next (such as deciding to go make a new artwork immediately, or else going back and taking another drink at the tavern as soon as they finish their current task).  A more stressed dwarf, after they recover from their extreme outburst might try to take this relaxation activity to a higher extreme, such as a dwarf creating art until they are near collapse from needs, or a dwarf pushing alcohol poisoning at the tavern until they can burn off that stress to a more even-keeled level.
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