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Author Topic: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)  (Read 2995 times)

AlStar

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2017, 09:54:35 am »

I ended up going with a profane easg saint - immune to light, resistant to dark, weak to body - cost was high (2,673 credits), but not as bad as the wisp.

The important thing is that it takes away my characters default weakness to electricity, which has been becoming a major problem recently.

Darkmere

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2017, 06:51:42 pm »

So..... what's the best way to get some kind of lightning resistance extremely early? I've had my 4 best runs so far end with "haha that one lightning douche appears, yourminionsareindangeryoureindangeryourestunnedstunnedstunned oh you died too bad lol".

It's a unique, the one with 3 modified shockbirds that's weak to pierce - which is irrelevant apparently since I get zero actions before death anyway.

If it helps, I've had the most luck with pure heart healing, so that's what I'd like to stick with until I get a little further.
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And then, they will be weaponized. Like everything in this game, from kittens to babies, everything is a potential device of murder.
So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.

Whisperling

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2017, 07:49:18 pm »

So..... what's the best way to get some kind of lightning resistance extremely early? I've had my 4 best runs so far end with "haha that one lightning douche appears, yourminionsareindangeryoureindangeryourestunnedstunnedstunned oh you died too bad lol".

It's a unique, the one with 3 modified shockbirds that's weak to pierce - which is irrelevant apparently since I get zero actions before death anyway.

If it helps, I've had the most luck with pure heart healing, so that's what I'd like to stick with until I get a little further.

That'd be Vikhor. I usually deal with him by staying out of melee range with Vikhor (to avoid stunning) and finding a way to break line-of-sight with the shockbirds, usually by using a corner or putting more resilient minions in front of me. Unless you're in a hallway, the latter makes for a pretty patchy shield, but it's probably a lot better than nothing.

I play pure heart a lot as well, and I've actually noticed that the weaknesses/resistances seem to fluctuate. Haven't done too much testing on that, but I think it has to do with your initial choice of elements. My current run is lightning/light, which resulted in electricity resistance and a weakness to dark.

On that note, you might actually want to tinker with your element loadout a bit. Despite pure heart's supposed healing focus, I've had surprising amounts of luck picking offensive elements and then blasting away from the sidelines. Even if you don't start with any healing skills at all, starting with a fairy or picking up a zalthys early-game is easy enough.
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Darkmere

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2017, 08:05:51 pm »

I have tried switching things up on the heart, a little. Fire didn't seem to offer enough healing per mana spent and lightning I never connected with a single attack, dying immediately.

I think the frustrating part with the Vikhor death was finding him and the pack on a wide-open room and having him immediately charge me. The first turn of the fight I was stunned and Headless was almost one-shotted, and from there the next 4 turns had to be spend doing damage control... which I was then chain-stunned to death from.

Until that point nothing in the game had been any problem and I'm not sure what could have been done to not get autokilled.

But yeah, roguelike, I get it.

For what it's worth I've been putting lucky aid and ... the extra SP passive from the decurse healers... onto fairies for early game healing. It seems to work really well - and make my relic wraiths extremely annoying to kill.
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And then, they will be weaponized. Like everything in this game, from kittens to babies, everything is a potential device of murder.
So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.

Whisperling

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2017, 09:22:30 pm »

Haven't had much success with fire myself, although I only tried it once. Pretty much the same observations, there- I burned through stamina pretty quickly, and the healing seemed mediocre even if it was AoE.

The heart's primary lightning abilities are actually pretty reliable, if you're using them in the right situations. There's one that thunderbolts 1-3 enemies at random, with a 70% chance of hitting each and a chance to shock, and another that restores a bunch of SP when you shock. It's pretty unreliable versus one enemy, but use it in the general vicinity of a group and you can crank out quite a bit of damage without using much SP.

I usually grab a second ranged attack for when I need actual reliability, preferably one that can't miss. The lightning/light combo I mentioned above is nice because it gives access to censure. 40-some power, but it's ranged, has perfect accuracy, and a lot of things are weak to it.

------------

Headless is weak to lightning, so that's probably why he took damage so quickly. If you're already picking up those decurse healers, they're resistant, and sort of decent at close range if you can actually get them to attack something. Might make okay meatshields, if you don't end up needing the slot for something better.

Vikhor is fast, so the key is basically just finding multiple things that can weather the attacks, then keeping him occupied in melee until you can beat him to death. I don't think he himself has any lightning attacks, so a properly-positioned zombie or headless might be more effective there. If you've got a good way to take out his support before dealing with him, that's probably also a good move, but that tends to be hard if you encounter him at a low level. Dealing with him is definitely hard, and I feel your pain on that particular situation. :/
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 09:24:55 pm by Whisperling »
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Quote from: ATHATH
I've encouraged the ripping out of spines
today is a good day

nenjin

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2017, 10:07:16 pm »

Been watching the thread for a bit.

Loved SMT:N, though I haven't played much of the other Devil Summoner games.

This is really great. What I love most so far is a) the flavor and b) the polish.

The menus and dialog and so forth are all very nicely done, and I love the demon descriptions. The game really nails the addictive quality of getting new abilities, and all the different monster considerations break up the flow of your average roguelike, which is usually just *slay* *slay* *slay*. The little sequences for befriending demons are great and seem to have some real variety to them. I ended up failing a recruitment only to turn around and recruit a more powerful demon that was part of the previous recruitment "gimmick."

I also am really liking the flavor. Wasn't expecting indie references but I've already gotten one big one, i.e. West. That it had its own sequence of stuff going on was great, more than you get out of your average roguelike encounter. Really looking forward to more of that.

The pixel art is great and I'm glad for the closeups on demons so I can appreciate it.

And just the little other flavor nods, like credit piles looking like runes, offscreen demons looking like little souls.

Wishes for the future:

-Ability to see the whole message log. Unless I'm not seeing the controls for it, the best I have is the pause.
-Ability to get a bigger demon party pool? Already having to discard demons after a floor because I keep seeing new ones is kind of disappointing. Can't make enough cash to fuse them off either. The game's got a Pokemon quality to it but the inability to hold more than a few demons, while it has its game play reasons, kind of irks.
-Better mouse driven interface. I spent a few minutes looking for how to swap ability key around and trying different things with the mouse before realizing it was a "mode" you had to set through a keyboard shortcut.
-More styling for the tilesets. The monsters got the love and that's really important but the environment needs more stuff (like the eyes glowing from holes in the wall.) Maybe that gets better later on. Like, I think the game could go a lot farther with its setting and the way to do that is through the visuals of the level.

Looking forward to enjoying more of this.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 10:13:10 pm by nenjin »
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Darkmere

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2017, 03:14:20 am »

There are more tilesets and you can slightly expand your carrying capacity later on.

That said, I'm learning that several of the abilities and demons are very specific, so you don't always want them on every character. I've stopped trying to hold on to Zaltys beyond tossing lucky aid around, for example.

I just finished my best run yet, with crown/shock/buff. Shock spear is ridiculously nice, but it felt like my stats were spread way thin and abandoning strength on a melee-range character still feels bizarre. I'm getting used to it though.
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And then, they will be weaponized. Like everything in this game, from kittens to babies, everything is a potential device of murder.
So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.

beorn080

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2017, 08:09:31 am »

The biggest thing I've found is that enemies will not chase you outside of line of sight. At least not past where they last saw you. If you can keep a beefy tank in reserve, you can escape from pretty much everyone, and if you snag swiftness, you definitely can.

I will say that I like the lore. I went for actaeon one run. Usually skipped him as he didn't seem that good. That eas an extremely fun and rewarding fight.
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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2017, 10:17:55 am »

If you can understand french, i did some introduction videos. It's not a "Let's Play", i cut lots of parts and i mainly try to explain the game's rules and ideas : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=UUY7fqffH8xyf_8z3DPgt9iQ

Also i have an issue : when i'm fullscreen (F11), the game goes fullscreen but stretchs to fit, instead of creating black borders if needed, so i only play windowed and i'm sad. Is it just me ?
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nenjin

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2017, 12:07:12 pm »

Yeah don't have that problem. I wonder if it's your default desktop resolution that Unity is attempting to compensate for. Maybe there's a config file for the game somewhere but I didn't see it.

Right now my problem is a couple particular packs on Level 2. You end up fighting 3 Lvl 4 Cat Monsters with Guilty and they proceed to shred your level 3 guys pretty easily. That said I'm playing Orb Dark/Dark/Dark, and not having LOS for half the fight sucks. So that's likely my issue.

Also I kinda dislike how linking with one guy will inevitably pull you in to a fight with another thing you'd rather link with. I'm thinking Floor 1 1/2. Every time I link with something it runs me directly into the West fight, where I'd rather be linking with Headless.

Is there any way to see what the effect of all link failures are? There are a couple that are quite cryptic.
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Keep your eyes on the road keep your hand upon the wheel.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?

Zangi

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2017, 12:12:10 pm »

Basically what it says on the tin. 
They heal to max, random status effects, spreading distrust or whatever.

Failing against heroics really suck.
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nenjin

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2017, 12:17:36 pm »

Not sure what distrust is though? It's not a status debuff like most of the rest. Will your demons fail to obey your commands? Is there a loyalty stat somewhere?

Some of them are quite clear, but like I said, a couple are fairly cryptic.
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Keep your eyes on the road keep your hand upon the wheel.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?

Zangi

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2017, 12:19:38 pm »

Distrust = surly/ angry
You can't recruit them.
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All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu...  This is the truth! This is my belief! ... At least for now...
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nenjin

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2017, 12:33:16 pm »

Oh right, that distrust. So does it do it for the whole floor or just the ones you see?

Also small typo: in one of his link dialogs, Abbey Lubber says ...."we'll do it may wya."

Also...anyone know where the save file is? :P
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 12:47:45 pm by nenjin »
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Keep your eyes on the road keep your hand upon the wheel.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?

Zangi

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2017, 01:17:50 pm »

For the floor, some of them is a few randoms and others are many randoms, depending on the fail notes.  Doesn't count the ones that spawn later / from corpses. 
(I've managed to fail a few...)
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All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu...  This is the truth! This is my belief! ... At least for now...
FMA/FMA:B Recommendation
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