Alright, a bunker full of explosives with a live bomb in it is a problem.
A bunker full of explosives that just resisted a fuel-air bomb? Not so much.
you might notice on the map that both bunkers are half covered in flame and that both are missing parts of themselves. Some of that damage was from Joan firing the AA guns in that direction, exposing the innards of those buildings to the blast. Since PW has stated that half hte base is on fire, and that includes both those buildings, I can only act on the assumption that the ongoing flame and heat will set things off in there. And since I spent a round or two specifically judging the explosion-worthiness of one of those buildings, and it was determined that I could drop my satchel charge anywhee in the room to have good effect in generating a big explosion, I can only assume that having flame cover half the building will also have that effect.
I'd actually have rated the likelihood of generating that many fires lower than PW evidently has, because a fuel-air bomb consumes a lot of oxygen and messes with pressure so badly that it'll starve most fires of air and/or just the oxygen in the air for a bit, and doesn't heat things quite that bad because of the speed with which is dissipates.
Eh, PW's games are not based one hundred percent on realism. So there is some wiggle room in the physics for stuff we wouldn't expect. But we are dealing with the afermath of the fuel tanks exploding in PW's reality, not our own, so I gotta run with that.
No, I am suggesting to you that when you wait long enough to realize that there's no present fire hazards inside the bunker and that the ammunition is therefore not going to explode, you'll be walking (Or driving) right back into the arms of every single Nazi that remains alive, especially any that have actually gotten clear of the base.
If I stay on base, those nazis will still be coming. Only, I will not have the tactical advantage of coming from an unknown direction, but will be right in the middle of the fires. That's kinda a bad situation to be in. IF i get off base, the shadows and confusion give me better tactical positioning - I know where the nazis are probably coming from, and they don't know if I am even still around. Of course, bad rolls could undo that, but bad rolls while I remain in the middle of a burning hellhole, dicking about in a half collapsed building will have a much greater likelihood of ending in failure.
The BUNKER explosion will not consume the whole base in a cloud of flaming gasoline. However, it would make for a very nice ending to the mission. I vote that the man that owes several of us characters finishes the mission in an above-and-beyond-the-call-of-duty fashion, instead of running and dooming it to failure.
A minor point here: you say "several of 'us' characters, but should probably say either: several of 'our' characters, or: several of us 'players.' just as a mater of separating OOC and IC issues.
You make an interesting point: Ed should feel some obligation to the team, and has a chance at some extra heroism.
However, I disagree that leaving now would be dooming the mission to failure: Information has many forms, and we have at least three of those forms currently in possession: 1) Eyewitness testimony, 2) the shells we already have loaded, and 3) the plane Alice is trying to steal. Oh, and a report already sent by Joan, which gives us a
marginal success in that regard. the shells would, I argue, give us a
moderate success at least, in terms of information, while capturing one or more nazi commanders or special operatives may or may not give us major success, depending on whether the interrogators could get much info out of them. that leaves documentation - and getting theproper documentation to make sense of what is going on here seemed to me pretty unlikely from the start. Frankly, I have thought since the beginning that pulling at least one of those shells was our best bet at fulfilling Objective 1. SO, leaving now wold actually fulfill all three objectives, at at least moderate success, provided we make it to pick-up.
Additionally, I will simply state that IC, Ed sees a lot of burning teammates, and does not necessarily see many active living ones. his goal in escaping now, besides not dying in the fire, is to get his wounded teammates out, as well a the cargo we have already.
The EXTRA Nazis I refer to are the ones that usually get called up after a dangerous attack on a secret base, SS or maybe just the local Luftwaffe/Wehrmacht division. You know, the ones in charge of more soldiers from off the exploded base, who want to come investigate the calls for help over radio channels, and presumably also the calls of "OH HOLY CRAP THE BASE JUST EXPLODED" coming from wherever their radio/communications/command center happens to be dug in. Or, perhaps worse, the Soviets, who will Gulag the remaining special forces who should not be acting in this theater, and probably continue the experiments on the children, because they're Soviets and Soviets aren't known for their compassionate hearts.
I'm not sure which point this is modifying. Again, the base has already exploded. A second explosion is not going to generate a second set of reinforcements. Especially since the Nazis already know that the base has munitions on it.
Thank you, for not trusting me.
Don't take it too hard. Trust is earned, not guaranteed. You don't trust me, now do you? Why should I trust you? I mean, first, your first post in this thread was rather insulting, and some might consider it abusive. Second, you have been pretty consistently antagonistic to my actions since that time, and third, we don't ahve a longstanding experience together from which we can draw understanding of one another. So we have to build trust, if we want trust. Now, I will say, and most here can attest to this: I've built friendships with several players in this game and in the forum at large after having rocky starts. So, trusting you is not out of the question, it's just not there yet.
Thank you again, for proving that you should not be trusted to preserve the lives of your teammates, because "Ooh pretty explosion" was a bit too much of a temptation.
Neither Ed nor I ever claimed that we were to be trusted to preserve teammate lives. For the record, my expectation for Ed's character path was much different than what has happened. I intended for him to remain mostly out of action. Heck, as an engineer, he didn't even start with a gun. I put points in mechanics, tank, and trap. Ed's purpose was to be the handyman of the team - not a shooter, nor a hero. He would fix what needed fixing, rig bridges to explode, and, if the opportunity presented itself, drive a tank. The tank was the coolest thing i expectd for Ed. Insted, Ed fnds himself being rughly thrown out of a burning plane (which he expected to die on, while pushing others out - check my action in that instance), landing exposed on the roof of a hanger urrounded by Nazis, finding himself in a hand-to-hand combat situation, and finding himself with an opportunity to rig the base for destruction, while teh shooting was going on and the team had put themselves in grave danger. He has been on high stress since the plane.
and ed was more than willing to set the timer longer, or to not set the bomb at all - again, check y post in THAT situation. And finally, instead of staying in the relative safety of the truck off base, Ed, fully aware that his satchel charge was about to go off, still drove back into the base to support his teammates. And now, he is willing to wait and help out - check my action in THIS situatuion. Notice how it includes the option of sticking around and pulling the rest of the shells?
I don't recall actually ever saying that it's unreasonable to think that there might be an explosion, I think it's HIGHLY unreasonable to abandon comrades and children even if there IS A chance of exploding, since you can either save yourself or give yourself a chance at saving both yourself AND the children.
It is not unreasonable to attempt to save what you can, if attempting to save more is most likely to end with losing everything. In this, Ed is acting with the mission objectives in mind - these shells need to get back to the allies.
And while yes, his action failed, if it's worth anything to the homicidal traitor who just killed half his team, it's worth GLORY to the guy who got screwed over trying to prevent that from happening.
Ed had no intention of murdering teammates, nor of betraying the team or command. Other derogatories might be more appropriate here than homicidal and traitorous. And sure,saving teammates from an explosion
is a worthy act. In time, upon reflection, Ed might have been willing to admit that, at least to himself. Me?I never opposed Smith's action, except that I thought the explosion would do more good than harm. And it did, really. It killed three severely wounded teammates and dozens of enemies.
Of course I read your edited action, if you did things differently I'd have had no reason to continue, since I would've accomplished entirely my goals for the argument----you, saving the children and also helping the remainder of the team evacuate.
this goes back to an earlier point: Ed could have sat on the truck and kept it idling while waiting for the team to retreat. instead, he went in, knowing full well that an explosion was immanent, and expecting the fuel tanks to go up in that explosion. Even if he escapes now with
some of the team and
some of the shells, he's done quite a bit. Definitely more than I ever expected of this character, who, I remind you, was meant to be essentially a handyman.
Ed armed it and placed it, with intention to do damage and reduce the effective force of the nazis. Milo moved it with the intention of preventing that.
Note I didn't say "Ed's plan to blow up Nazis". It was "Ed's plan to kill his teammates and the kids, then run away like a coward" that I tried to foil.
And hey, look, guess who is still trying to run away, while my character is running twords possible danger in the hopes of being able to help the guys that just got caught in the blast.
Smith is very brave. Ed does not see himself as brave. Scared shitless, more like. Good luck. I hope Smith doesn't get caught in the fires or in a second explosion and has a chance to help out with the mission objectives.
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Topic: 888th Brigade OOC thread (Read 62383 times)