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Author Topic: Mass pitting issue  (Read 3496 times)

UndrState

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Mass pitting issue
« on: October 13, 2017, 10:45:39 am »

Hi all ,

I know per the wiki that there is now an issue with non-thief units escaping while being pitted . My first attempt since .34 , I even tried building the cages and had the same issue . Any tips for a dwarf that just wants to drop prisoners down deep, dark holes ?
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Mass pitting issue
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2017, 10:58:54 am »

You can build the cage and link it to a lever, I suppose, if your setup fails.

If you don't care that your prisoners are healthy, you could shotgun them through a fortification with minecart.

bloop_bleep

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Re: Mass pitting issue
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2017, 01:58:40 pm »

Dump the (unbuilt) cages right next to a floor hatch above the pit zone. They should just be thrown into the pit without escaping.

If that doesn't work, what Fleeting Frames said.
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anewaname

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Re: Mass pitting issue
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2017, 03:10:46 pm »

Are your issues with the creatures climbing out, or are fights starting on the stockpile z-layer making it appear as if the creature had climbed out?

My last mass-pitting system in 43.05 was the wiki's mass-pitting system. Fights were starting on the stockpile's z level and haulers were getting hurt. Some creatures were pitted successfully, some not. I didn't see creatures climbing out, possibly because the fall was two levels, possibly because I missed it.. I tried to delete the non-orthogonal stockpile tiles (recalling a hospital/traction-bench issue with moving the dwarf to the table from the bed). I tried removing animal hauling from all dwarfs except a military squad and their armor stopped the injuries but there was still job cancellation spam. I didn't find a way to stop the fights or the job cancellations so I started building a "drop the cages into magma" system.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Mass pitting issue
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2017, 03:32:12 pm »

Prisoner can escape while being "hauled" for pitting, even if that distance is a single tile. Critters climbing out of the pit is permitted by the hatch not being locked (or possibly the pitted creature being a gremlin or kobold), but that's a completely different issue.

Not only can creatures designated for pitting escape, but it seems of one escapes all the subsequent one do as well, even if the first one has been put down when the hauler for the next one arrives. I've given up on mass pitting for that reason.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Mass pitting issue
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2017, 09:45:25 am »

The behaviour changed recently, dwarves will put dangerous to handle creatures often in cages first, carry the cage then empty it, rather than drag the creature the entire way there.

Make a stockpile of cages near where your 'visitors' are being kept and the pitting room.
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Sanctume

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Re: Mass pitting issue
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2017, 03:45:48 pm »

I think the issue is from the time a creature is taken out of the cage, and pitted into the hatch covered pit. 
At which point, the creature is falling, and has a chance to grab hold of the "wall immediately below the pit" that is covered by a hatch. 

This behavior of chance to grab hold of the wall is part of the climbing feature.  And if the creature is successful in grabbing hold of the wall, then it can proceed to climb out. 

One way to address the "grab hold" of the wall, is to make that wall unclimb-able:
One way is to channel the pit opening, and smooth the natural stone to make it impossible to climb as well as impossible to "grab hold" 
The second way is to not have a wall z-1 of the pit, so a hole of the floor is not something that can be "grab hold". 

The other possible issue is the "time it takes to take out the caged creature and pitting", has a possibility the dwarf becomes interrupted. 
Interrupted by being hungry, thirsty maybe, or need to socialize? 
Or being spooked by other creatures dwarfs nearby who are also in the process of being pitted. 

I've done this once, where I am pitting 1 creature zombie at a time, and there were no escaped / spooked.

But when I pitted around 6, some zombies escaped and cause mayhem.

Fleeting Frames

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Re: Mass pitting issue
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2017, 06:02:42 pm »

Doubt the first, as can't go through forbidden hatches or unlinked bridges from below, Sanctume.

bloop_bleep

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Re: Mass pitting issue
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2017, 07:22:09 pm »

Doubt the first, as can't go through forbidden hatches or unlinked bridges from below, Sanctume.
If I'm not mistaken, the hatch is open for a second longer than it's in use, like with doors.
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Mass pitting issue
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2017, 08:25:45 pm »

True if creature walks through the hatch, but not true if they're pitted. The creature is instantly placed under hatch/bridge, without ever being present on top of them.

Sanctume

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Re: Mass pitting issue
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2017, 09:40:57 pm »

Yup, pitting through a forbidden hatch works.  The creature shows up under the hatch, and the forbidden hatch prevents pathing up.

FantasticDorf

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Re: Mass pitting issue
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2017, 02:45:39 am »

How about pitting them in a smoothened 2 deep hole with a downstairs tile on the bottom tile? Im unsure whether they'd clip or get caught on the stairs but they'd likely fall down the stairs on collision into the main pit. (or land them onto a artifact door ready to drop on a lever pull)

XXHXX
XX XX
XXDXX


If it works its a effective way of preventing escape for flying creatures already within the pitting room (released using a cage) while using gravity on all other creatures, using a steeper drop if needed to ensure they fall down the stairwell into the 'drop and forget' room.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 02:49:04 am by FantasticDorf »
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Mass pitting issue
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2017, 10:57:11 am »

You don't get hurt by stairs when falling through a stairwell; it's the sudden stop at the end that hurts you.

For flying creatures, iirwikic unlike falling ones they can be hit by weapon traps. If that clip their wings, they can become no longer flying.

UndrState

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Re: Mass pitting issue
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2017, 08:10:01 am »

Hi all ,

Thanks for the replies ( sorry I hadn't checked in for a while ) .

Just to clarify , the mass pitting as I've set it up was a stockpile built around 6 hatches , so that the stockpile was never more than 1 tile away . Hatches were forbidden . I don't know whether it was "fights" , spooked dwarves or enemies climbing out . The latter seems most unlikely unless I'm misunderstanding the climbing mechanic totally, as the hatches were dropping into a wide room with no nearby walls to the holes .

If I may sum up the advice above , I'm going to try :

A)
 1) Smoothing walls/floors
 2) Pitting one at a time
 3) Keeping soldiers out of the room
B)
 1) Failing above , dump cages ( I assume if I want to drown/magma death them ? )
 2) Minecart shotgunning through fortifications if I want them alive ( but they'll be injured )

I hope A works .
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Mass pitting issue
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2017, 08:59:24 am »

Note about B1: Creatures will not be harmed inside cages, unless the cages are destroyed or as a result of preexisting condition like already drowning (in which case they'll drown even after the cage is removed from water).
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