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[Amostubal]

But if his Patreon goes down... I wouldn't be surprised if he returns soon after.

tbh I think that if meph came back he would probably be crucified by the community, or at least the most hatted modder on the forums.

He already is considered that amongst the modding community, I'll say as much. And yeah, him returning is not gonna be a "shining knight riding in on a white horse" moment.

Yeah I've hit that mark more than once.  Among Modders, Masterwork is rather much a thorn in most people sides... the funny thing is that when you mention it they get mad, then when you ask if you can add their stuff to the batch they get happy.   Its rather fickle.  oh ZM5 I appreciate the hard work you have done in your mods and I like putting your name out there on the forums when I'm asked about what I think came from you.  Same goes for a bunch of other modders, who if I made a list I'd leave a bunch of people out, by accident.

At this point I'm just playing vanilla waiting for something the update.

Amostubal update is quite ok.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also all Meph did was make a tileset (don't know if he even did most of the work on that) and compile all the mods (which in his own words is like 10% of the work)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Doesn't matter. Without him people would have to manually install all that and solve compatibility issues.
We do appreciate the work of our farmers growing food, but it is a baker we go to visit to buy bread.

There you go, I agree, to a point.  We go to a store that sells us the prepared goods we want to buy; instead of going to farmers to buy the food.  We go to stores we trust to do a good job at selecting those goods.  We hope that the chain from the farmers to the companies to the store has built up trust and respect between them.  In my time that I did deal with Masterwork I found that these things were lacking in the chain and that people placed more trust in the products presented then should have been given.

Amostubal update is quite ok.

Seconding this. Humans are broken, though. You can play them, but they have various issues.

I'm sorry to hear this... I did not think they still had too many issues.  But then again so many times I would fix problem A and find that it created problem B, C, D, & E.

[Putnam]

But if his Patreon goes down... I wouldn't be surprised if he returns soon after.

tbh I think that if meph came back he would probably be crucified by the community, or at least the most hatted modder on the forums.

He already is considered that amongst the modding community, I'll say as much.

haha what the fuck i'm pretty sure i'm historically the most public masterwork hater and i still think that's a ridiculous statement to make

[StagnantSoul]

I've maybe twice seen hate for Meph, not sure how that's most hated...

[Evans]

There you go, I agree, to a point.  We go to a store that sells us the prepared goods we want to buy; instead of going to farmers to buy the food.  We go to stores we trust to do a good job at selecting those goods.  We hope that the chain from the farmers to the companies to the store has built up trust and respect between them.  In my time that I did deal with Masterwork I found that these things were lacking in the chain and that people placed more trust in the products presented then should have been given.

As a long time modder myself I have seen it all. So far, DF community is least toxic of probably all gaming communities out there.
But mods will always cause controversy, especially when mods from different people are being put together by another.
Such is the nature of things.

But all those aside, MDF is still a job-well-done-in-progress.

I'm sorry to hear this... I did not think they still had too many issues.  But then again so many times I would fix problem A and find that it created problem B, C, D, & E.

We could use some hardening sprints to iron out the crap. Time to violate scrum guide and remove some technical debt from MDF

[Warmist]

But if his Patreon goes down... I wouldn't be surprised if he returns soon after.

tbh I think that if meph came back he would probably be crucified by the community, or at least the most hatted modder on the forums.

He already is considered that amongst the modding community, I'll say as much.

haha what the fuck i'm pretty sure i'm historically the most public masterwork hater and i still think that's a ridiculous statement to make

:O never knew this side of df forums existed.
My patreon account on the other hand would have: PAY ME MONEY AND I "MIGHT" DO SOMETHING FOR YOU UNGRATEFUL ZOMBIES. Just so there is no miscommunication

[Rose]

Mine doesn't give any specific timelines or anything, but I still feel really guilty when I go a week or more without getting anything done.

[ZM5]

But if his Patreon goes down... I wouldn't be surprised if he returns soon after.

tbh I think that if meph came back he would probably be crucified by the community, or at least the most hatted modder on the forums.

He already is considered that amongst the modding community, I'll say as much.

haha what the fuck i'm pretty sure i'm historically the most public masterwork hater and i still think that's a ridiculous statement to make

Guess you've never hung out on more places than here or the Discord, then.

[deathpunch578]

But if his Patreon goes down... I wouldn't be surprised if he returns soon after.

tbh I think that if meph came back he would probably be crucified by the community, or at least the most hatted modder on the forums.

He already is considered that amongst the modding community, I'll say as much.

haha what the fuck i'm pretty sure i'm historically the most public masterwork hater and i still think that's a ridiculous statement to make

I've maybe twice seen hate for Meph, not sure how that's most hated...

I'm just a bitter asshole with bad opinions, but when you donate money to someone/something you expect them to do what they promised, and when they don't deliver that promise I just kinda lose respect for that person/thing (kinda why I hate the red cross).

but then again I've got bad opinions on things.

[Enemy post]

Guess you've never hung out on more places than here or the Discord, then.

Besides those and the subreddit, what else is there? IRC?

[ZM5]

Guess you've never hung out on more places than here or the Discord, then.

Besides those and the subreddit, what else is there? IRC?

The main ones would be the DF generals on 4/8chan - moreso on 4chan since the generals on there are more active, and due to being anonymous, people can say what they actually think.

I didn't mind Meph himself even if MW imo unjustifiably overshadows a lot of mods, since I don't think he knew what effects it'd have on the modding community - the current debacle made me start losing respect for him - same for when I found out he had a Patreon (wasn't interested in MW when I started modding and I wasn't aware of it) - getting money for a mod which has parts from many different modders just doesn't sit right with me, even if they're credited.

Personally, I'm withdrawing my pack from MW if he does come back, though.

[Amostubal]

But if his Patreon goes down... I wouldn't be surprised if he returns soon after.

tbh I think that if meph came back he would probably be crucified by the community, or at least the most hatted modder on the forums.

He already is considered that amongst the modding community, I'll say as much.

haha what the fuck i'm pretty sure i'm historically the most public masterwork hater and i still think that's a ridiculous statement to make

lol, Putnam. Yeah nut even you have in the past contributed to masterwork, A search of "putnam" in the MMDF directory comes up at least 4 times I'm sure of without actually doing the search.  I'd hope you wouldn't mind collaborating/contributing on my newest project if you get the time.  I plan to post about it sometime mid November.

There you go, I agree, to a point.  We go to a store that sells us the prepared goods we want to buy; instead of going to farmers to buy the food.  We go to stores we trust to do a good job at selecting those goods.  We hope that the chain from the farmers to the companies to the store has built up trust and respect between them.  In my time that I did deal with Masterwork I found that these things were lacking in the chain and that people placed more trust in the products presented then should have been given.

As a long time modder myself I have seen it all. So far, DF community is least toxic of probably all gaming communities out there.
But mods will always cause controversy, especially when mods from different people are being put together by another.
Such is the nature of things.

But all those aside, MDF is still a job-well-done-in-progress.

I'm sorry to hear this... I did not think they still had too many issues.  But then again so many times I would fix problem A and find that it created problem B, C, D, & E.

We could use some hardening sprints to iron out the crap. Time to violate scrum guide and remove some technical debt from MDF

You know if anyone wants to still contribute to MMDF - I still have a github, all they have to do is send up the stuff and I'll push it in... I'f I ever get more than just the handful ( I think there was 3 changes since 1.29 on the github, 1 by me ) than I'd be willing to even repack MMDF and reupload the files.  If anyone wants to take over the project page, I'm willing to add them as admins, if they show they can do the work.  MMDF isn't dead... its just in stasis, I don't mind promoting it to the masses who want it.

But if his Patreon goes down... I wouldn't be surprised if he returns soon after.

tbh I think that if meph came back he would probably be crucified by the community, or at least the most hatted modder on the forums.

He already is considered that amongst the modding community, I'll say as much.

haha what the fuck i'm pretty sure i'm historically the most public masterwork hater and i still think that's a ridiculous statement to make

:O never knew this side of df forums existed.
My patreon account on the other hand would have: PAY ME MONEY AND I "MIGHT" DO SOMETHING FOR YOU UNGRATEFUL ZOMBIES. Just so there is no miscommunication

there's another big name!  Yeah... the worst I would ever do is a "GoFundMe!" account to get a better system to handle the work load I'm doing on these kinds of projects.  Something like a new desktop since my last one is now in ownership of my children and the one from before that is an oversized door jam.  Maybe even a decent desk and a couple of monitors so I can work in one screen and play DF or watch the feeds in a second screen... anything to get me off this little laptop... I just don't want to front the entire cost of a new system and monitors at this time.

Mine doesn't give any specific timelines or anything, but I still feel really guilty when I go a week or more without getting anything done.

And that's another reason I don't do a patreon account.  Because honestly I already feel really guilty when I don't sit down and get at least 8 to 16 hours of solid actual coding done every week.  I feel like I haven't put my 2 cents in to the projects that I've promised the people.  If I had a patreon, I'd put in 2 times the work and still feel guilty every week.

Anyways... watch for an announcement some time around middle of this month for my newest project and an expected release date between then and end of November for what is currently being named "Legendary Dwarf Fortress : version 00.00.01".  Just to self promote myself while promising to do things that I will feel guilty for not completing on time.  If you have anything you would like to collaborate on for the project.  Just contact me either here or directly on MW discord below.

[Warmist]

I don't understand this guilt. I mean there is a contract between you and your patrons. What are the terms you decide. E.g. if i would a make a patreon account it would say that i'm not going to do this full time. Unless you reach some crazy goal, which is impossible.

Do you feel guilt when working at a job? That you did not put in 100% of your time into it? I don't. Humans are not machines. Thus this patreon business is strange to me: it looks like someone is hurt but he is not one of the patreons. It looks like jealousy: oh no he gets money and does not dance to our fiddle! If his patreons think that he is not doing his part of contract - they will cancel on him. There is no need to "ban him". Maybe people (e.g. i would if i was his patron) that giving him a dollar just so one day he would come back to MDF is worth it. Or maybe (e.g. me on some projects in patreon) that person did so much good that i think i'll be his 3$ patreon EVEN if he does nothing just because he already did a lot.

TL;DR: patrons should decide themselves.

[Amostubal]

Thus this patreon business is strange to me: it looks like someone is hurt but he is not one of the patreons.

agreed that is my original point when this post started... because anyone who chooses to continue a contract with someone who is not fulfilling their half of the contract does so knowingly.

It looks like jealousy: oh no he gets money and does not dance to our fiddle!

yep, we already know he's not fulfilling his end of his contract, if that upsets you, then stop donating... I'll stop donating to DF, if Toady tomorrow states he is no longer going to be producing DF.  If others decide to continue to donate, that is their decision. people should know where the money coming out of their bank accounts is going, that is their responsibility, etc etc

If his patreons think that he is not doing his part of contract - they will cancel on him. There is no need to "ban him". Maybe people (e.g. i would if i was his patron) that giving him a dollar just so one day he would come back to MDF is worth it.

Exactly people have the right to make their own minds up and donate if they wish too, freedom of the market, freedom of individual choice and will, freedom to personal decisions without other's infringing on it.

Or maybe (e.g. me on some projects in patreon) that person did so much good that i think i'll be his 3$ patreon EVEN if he does nothing just because he already did a lot.

i.e. some people are still buying Skyrim, GTA4, Old Square/Enix games, etc... so paying for things that are no longer in production is a common net thing that people want to do.

TL;DR: patrons should decide themselves.

[nuget102]

You guys realize you're complaining about a mod not getting updated... The idea if being mad about that is mind boggling to me.

Yea he has a patreon, but he's not like many of the YouTubers. It doesn't pay his rent or anything, so why expect him to spend full time on it? He'll get back when he gets back.

Show some respect for the guy, he's done a lot for the modding community and it is common knowledge he goes on hiatus' often. You wouldn't have the current (unofficial) MDF if it wasn't for him. If you guys think you can do a better job then try, make your own twist on MDF from scratch and see how difficult a true full overhaul mod is.

My opinion is to just take a breath, play the unofficial MDF until his return. I hate seeing communities turn aggressive like this and it reminds me of some other communities.

[Urlance Woolsbane]

You guys realize you're complaining about a mod not getting updated... The idea if being mad about that is mind boggling to me.

I've yet to see anyone on here that's fuming about the mod's stagnancy. The issue is the perceived ethics-breach.

Yea he has a patreon, but he's not like many of the YouTubers. It doesn't pay his rent or anything, so why expect him to spend full time on it? He'll get back when he gets back.

As I stated earlier, it's the whole "Weekly Updates" claim that lends that impression. I doubt anyone would mind the occasional month-long hiatus if Meph worked on Masterwork with any semblance of regularity. But he simply up and left, without so much as a farewell.

Show some respect for the guy, he's done a lot for the modding community and it is common knowledge he goes on hiatus' often. You wouldn't have the current (unofficial) MDF if it wasn't for him. If you guys think you can do a better job then try, make your own twist on MDF from scratch and see how difficult a true full overhaul mod is.

Again, I don't think anyone's contesting this. The complaint lies in the fact that he's profiting despite being AWOL.

My opinion is to just take a breath, play the unofficial MDF until his return. I hate seeing communities turn aggressive like this and it reminds me of some other communities.

I think we're all being fairly civil. I've seen much, much worse.