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How should workshops be handled?

By zones
- 2 (7.1%)
By zones + tools
- 17 (60.7%)
The way they are now
- 3 (10.7%)
The way they are now + tools
- 5 (17.9%)
Other
- 1 (3.6%)

Total Members Voted: 28


Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: Workshops as zones (and tool use/durability)  (Read 1331 times)

therahedwig

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Re: Workshops as zones (and tool use/durability)
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2017, 09:54:23 am »

Well, also don't forget that certain tools are not really that hard to come by. Wine is made by squeezing fruit juice and sticking it into a barrel for a long enough time. DF already requires the barrel, df already throws way too much fruit at you. Beer making will require water and fire, and distilling and long term wine storage will make the difference between an old fort and a new one. (And you can actually prepare all sorts of food with a campfire, or even just making a pit oven in the ground).

The biggest issue I have heard people point out to this topic is the one of tracking the tools. Because while the manager now makes it relatively easy to keep your fortress stocked on all sorts of stuff, there's still problems where Urist McCarpenter was busy sawing planks for a bed, but then the season changes, McCarpenter is drafted into the military, but forgets to leave behind the saw, leading to Urist McCapentersApprentice to cancel the job because the saw got misplaced.

So it would presuposse the AI being a bit more diligent about storing things.
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LordBaal

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Re: Workshops as zones (and tool use/durability)
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2017, 10:22:35 am »

Or Urist McCarpenter might just make some fine elven and goblin bone beds. 
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SixOfSpades

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Re: Workshops as zones (and tool use/durability)
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2017, 09:39:30 pm »

You know, upgrading workshops after they are built has some good potential for furniture as well: Existing beds can be supplemented with blankets, pillows, sheets, & even curtains if a framework is added too. Chairs can get cushions, tables can get tablecloths, weapon racks & armor stands can be made into display cases for specific weapons, etc. Once a built coffer or cabinet has been "augmented" with an item that can be placed there, that container becomes where the item gets put away. Designate a "toy chest" for your children and watch them actually put the toys away when they're not playing!
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Bumber

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Re: Workshops as zones (and tool use/durability)
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2017, 01:27:13 am »

You know, upgrading workshops after they are built has some good potential for furniture as well: Existing beds can be supplemented with blankets, pillows, sheets, & even curtains if a framework is added too.
The capability seems to already exist with linking mechanisms.
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LordBaal

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Re: Workshops as zones (and tool use/durability)
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2017, 06:10:06 am »

SixOfSpades, are you describing an... sleeping workshop??? Do they exist were you come from?
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

UristMcArmok

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Re: Workshops as zones (and tool use/durability)
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2017, 06:25:38 am »

On the topic of standard workshops being used in conjunction with zones, I think it should be strictly furniture to keep things consistent. Custom zones could be added via raws, but I donít object to keeping in custom workshops for modders who want it to look a very certain way or have a specific dimension. That means some new items may be needed. For the forge we could simple have a firesafe barrel, anvil, another barrel for water and maybe an armor/weapon rack, bin/chest for tools.

[ZONE:FORGE]
[OBJECT:ANVIL:1]
[OBJECT:BARREL_FIRESAFE:1]
[OBJECT:BARREL_ANY:1]
[OBJECT:BOX_ANY:1]
[TOOL_REQUIRED:HAMMER:1]
[TOOL_REQUIRED:TONGS:1]
[TOOL_OPTIONAL:WHETSTONE:1]

Perhaps if we made it a bit more realistic, we could construct a fire pit/furnace object to place like furniture, along with a bellows or draft inlet (either are needed to process higher metals like iron) along with requirement for adjacent tiles (bellows would need to be next to the furnace)

[ZONE:FORGE]
[OBJECT:ANVIL:1]
[OBJECT_ALT:FURNACE:1]
[OBJECT:BELLOWS:1]
[OBJECT_ALT:FIREPIT:1]
[OBJECT:BARREL_WATER:1]
[OBJECT:BOX_ANY:1]
[ADJACENT:BELLOWS:FURNACE:1]
[ADJACENT:ANVIL:BARREL_WATER:1]
[TOOL_REQUIRED:HAMMER:1]
[TOOL_REQUIRED:TONGS:1]
[TOOL_OPTIONAL:WHETSTONE:1]
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SixOfSpades

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Re: Workshops as zones (and tool use/durability)
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2017, 03:31:26 pm »

SixOfSpades, are you describing an... sleeping workshop??? Do they exist were you come from?
I'm proposing that work "shops" gain the ability to define work "zones", just as tombs are currently defined from coffins, offices are defined from chairs, etc. Also, just as extra beds in dormitories currently allow multiple dwarves to sleep simultaneously, additional tables (each possibly requiring their own furnace/anvil, where appropriate) will enable parallel processing by multiple dwarves. The material costs for setup will be much the same (a Carpenter's shop with two subsidiary benches won't be much cheaper than three separate Carpenters'), but the benefits to be gained will be the shared work experience (particularly in the case of a master training apprentices) and the shared optional tools (all 3 benches can use the same set, with a small speed penalty to approximate dwarves needing the same tool at the same time).

As for augmenting a bed the way I was describing augmenting workshops, again, that's for ease of setup, especially in the early days of a fort, and especially for newbie players. The starting 7 can sleep on the ground just fine, the only reason they "need" a bed is for self-respect; they were worth the time/materials of constructing a wooden bedstead. Later on, they should get annoyed that their bed doesn't have any blankets. A couple of years down the road, they might complain that there are no mattresses--finally, a use for feathers. And so on. This system is simple & easy to learn (or, as close to simple & easy as DF gets), and yet also allows for the full scope of realism & micromanaging, for players that want it.


Perhaps if we made it a bit more realistic, we could construct a fire pit/furnace object to place like furniture, along with a bellows or draft inlet (either are needed to process higher metals like iron) along with requirement for adjacent tiles (bellows would need to be next to the furnace)

[ZONE:FORGE]
[OBJECT_ALT:FIREPIT:1]
[ADJACENT:BELLOWS:FURNACE:1]
That's good. Zones (probably with a certain required number of benches) should also gain access to some industrial-scale augmentation that individual workshops won't get. For instance, I see the Firepit you suggested as a 2x2 construction placed anywhere within the zone, using twice the fuel of a regular Forge but usable by up to 6 dwarves at a time--and to build one, you need a Forge zone with at least 3 benches in it.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 03:33:24 pm by SixOfSpades »
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LordBaal

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Re: Workshops as zones (and tool use/durability)
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2017, 05:54:24 am »

Okay... I asked because I could really use a time working in a sleep workshop :p
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

Tristan Alkai

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Re: Workshops as zones (and tool use/durability)
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2017, 10:13:34 am »

There is an older thread on the subject (also somewhat larger and more detailed) here

I like the idea, but most of what I have to say in the subject is already there, so I don't see much point in repeating myself. 
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S0ZDATEL

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Re: Workshops as zones (and tool use/durability)
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2017, 01:35:19 pm »

It would be REALLY COOL! I'm agree with using tools in similar areas-workshops and with their wear. The only problem that may arise if you need to assign orders. I'm not sure how to assign the orders in this case... may, through any furniture in the area? Or through the settings of area (Yes, it's not convenient...)?
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