Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 50 51 [52] 53 54 ... 76

Author Topic: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race  (Read 80918 times)

Chiefwaffles

  • Bay Watcher
  • I've been told that waffles are no longer funny.
    • View Profile
Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #765 on: January 20, 2018, 08:23:53 pm »

Revision: Landslide Missile
1 Alien Equipment Token


The Landslide missile is a modification of the Rockslide to include a new technique based on experience from alien power sources in our railguns and now in our baes.
It’s currently crude and primitive, but by using a basic elerium explosive in our missiles instead of the conventional warhead we can greatly increase destructive power.

TL;DR: Our missiles are super great at hitting; now let’s make them hurt more when they hit. Should be easy since we have lots of experience with the subject matter and a valid token.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 09:39:26 pm by Chiefwaffles »
Logged
Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Strongpoint

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #766 on: January 20, 2018, 08:46:51 pm »

I think If we are doing the above, there are a little reason to not improve both missile and X-COM basic grenades amd SMART waarheads. It is mostly the same thing. Also, I prefer conventional-elaterium mix explosive as our first step in this direction. It sounds cheaper and easier and both are good things in my books.


It is a useful use of token and works with our experience but my problems with the revision above are
1) It relegates Phoenix pods to Skyranger only weapon, not sure it is a good thing
2) They are motivated to try to counter our missiles, something like point defense system can counter it before we field it
3) It doesn't help us to engage multiple targets. Last turn we had excessive amount of firepower, we had no enough ability to reliably cover all targets. Repeat the last turn and this revision does nothing.
4) It doesn't improve aircraft's ability to help in the ground phase of the battle.
5) It makes me salty, we should have added elerium warhead last turn instead of going for a trivial revision with no tokens used
Logged
They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

Madman198237

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #767 on: January 20, 2018, 09:14:26 pm »

It is a useful use of token and works with our experience but my problems with the revision above are
1) It relegates Phoenix pods to Skyranger only weapon, not sure it is a good thing
2) They are motivated to try to counter our missiles, something like point defense system can counter it before we field it
3) It doesn't help us to engage multiple targets. Last turn we had excessive amount of firepower, we had no enough ability to reliably cover all targets. Repeat the last turn and this revision does nothing.
4) It doesn't improve aircraft's ability to help in the ground phase of the battle.
5) It makes me salty, we should have added elerium warhead last turn instead of going for a trivial revision with no tokens used

1) No, no it doesn't, why do you think it does???
2) OK, and they can't make a hard counter, and we certainly can't counter it before they field it, and deploying more Ravens isn't going to magically make them more successful, since we only ever send one out per UFO
3) Um, aren't we having serious issues actually downing every UFO?
4) If they kill the UFOs, there will be no ground battle, and we don't often have enough Ravens to be wasted on ground support
5) I really am not concerned with your thoughtless salt, Strongpoint. That revision restored our ability to kill things, meaning it was certainly not wasted, and was indeed a good plan.
Logged
We shall make the highest quality of quality quantities of soldiers with quantities of quality.

Chiefwaffles

  • Bay Watcher
  • I've been told that waffles are no longer funny.
    • View Profile
Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #768 on: January 20, 2018, 09:39:09 pm »

I'm of the opinion that the Rockslide revision was the single most useful revision we have had. It made our missiles go from "sometimes hits things" to "guaranteed kills", radically improved our sensor tech (and the unfinished TAV), and countered their ECM.

Speaking of the TAV:
Revision: TAV2
1 Alien Equipment Token

The TAV2 is, as the name implies, a second "attempt" at the TAV.

Surprisingly, we don't have to do much. The Rockslide system is pretty much what we were aiming for with the original TAV - recognizing and analyzing targets based on sensor data. Just grab a proper display from either the consumer market or the salvaged TAV1 project, take whatever we can salvage from our TAV1 notes, and implement the Rockslide system tuned for smaller entities using the TAV1 experience of alien computing.

The TAV2 is also based more on some salvaged alien tech to both train the Rockslide system and generally cut down on R&D time. Why reinvent the Turbolight Processor for the TAV when the aliens already have a perfectly functioning one waiting for us in their stuff?

Quote
Raven-B (0):
Landslide Missile (0):
TAV2 (1): Chiefwaffles
Personally, I think the TAV is really important - right now their Mimics are practically a hard counter to our stuff, and the TAV undoes that. The TAV also gives extra general advantages to our ground teams, experience w/ alien computing, and more. I think our ground teams are due for a buff.
But with that being said, the Landslide missile is an easy yet powerful improvement that further futureproofs our missiles. I wouldn't be surprised if the aliens panic and upgrade their AA capabilities after seeing the Rockslides.
So I'm fine with both. For now I'll vote for the TAV2 but I'm perfectly okay with switching to Landslide.
Logged
Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Strongpoint

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #769 on: January 20, 2018, 09:59:26 pm »

Quote
1) No, no it doesn't, why do you think it does???
Because it will be plain better, especially if there will be no (less) EP cost. I suspect rockslide is already better but having both gives some useful versatility.

Quote
2) OK, and they can't make a hard counter, and we certainly can't counter it before they field it, and deploying more Ravens isn't going to magically make them more successful, since we only ever send one out per UFO
Deploying more of something, makes it more successful. Numeric superiority works.

Quote
3) Um, aren't we having serious issues actually downing every UFO?
No. We don't. We have issues with their fighter. We can relatively easily shoot down their unescorted light UFOs.

Quote
4)If they kill the UFOs, there will be no ground battle, and we don't often have enough Ravens to be wasted on ground support
How would better missiles help us during the last battle turn? It is likely that they'll repeat this kind of distribution (and avoid Europe this time) or go for 2-3 escorted missions. Our tactical flexibility remains low. Design tried to fix that by getting more VP, no luck, we need something to improve our tactical flexibility.

Quote
5) I really am not concerned with your thoughtless salt, Strongpoint. That revision restored our ability to kill things, meaning it was certainly not wasted, and was indeed a good plan.
Thoughtless is a borderline insult, you know? Rockslide is useful long term (I am unsure about short term because there are a good chance that we would shot down that light UFOs anyway) but that revision could be used for other things including better revision of the missile. If some turn had positive effect it doesn't mean that other turns couldn't have better effects. And let's not forget about that 8

Quote
radically improved our sensor tech (and the unfinished TAV)
It isn't a result of the wording of the revision. It didn't try to do anything like this. It is a result of a nat crit success. On average roll it would be a harm missile that tries to lock on the signal of ECM with no useful technology for other fields
Logged
They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

Madman198237

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #770 on: January 20, 2018, 10:24:03 pm »


Quote
Raven-B (0):
Landslide Missile (0):
TAV2 (2): Chiefwaffles, Madman

Let's save the infantry, shall we?
Logged
We shall make the highest quality of quality quantities of soldiers with quantities of quality.

Strongpoint

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #771 on: January 21, 2018, 08:47:55 am »

I am unsure about this part
Quote
"Why reinvent the Turbolight Processor for the TAV when the aliens already have a perfectly functioning one waiting for us in their stuff"

It is not like we captured drone parts or something like that. It looks like trying to get a justification for alien equipment token when there are no one.
Logged
They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

Cnidaros

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #772 on: January 21, 2018, 11:22:56 am »

I am rather annoyed that alien containment wasn't included in the base upgrade. Now we'll have to spend an extra revision on it when we get around to actually capturing aliens. Which I really want to get to before the real Psi-bullshit starts.

Quote
Raven-B (0):
Landslide Missile (0):
TAV2 (3): Chiefwaffles, Madman, Cnidaros

Best to finish off the TAV and forestall more mimic-octopus trickery. I'm not too worried about the air side of things for the moment. We didn't encounter any alien fighters this turn, and got wrecked one-on-one with them the previous turn, but I hope that the Rockslide will at least bring us to parity with their fighter. The most they've ever deployed were 2 fighters and 1 lander, so hopefully our 2 Ravens backed up by 3 Phoenix-Skyrangers can handle it.

But mostly I'm not worried because I'm 99% sure they'll deploy some or all of their force to investigate our base, meaning we can use the improved base defenses.

Also the TAV is good to make use of the EP we just got. Hopefully it's cheap enough that it's 1 EP for 4 instead of 3, for when we get more UP.
Logged

Strongpoint

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #773 on: January 21, 2018, 11:42:14 am »

Quote
I am rather annoyed that alien containment wasn't included in the base upgrade.
Voted base upgrade tried to do two things > improve defense and industry. It succeeded doing that. Doing three (adding alien containment) or more (training center, research buff, etc) things would have more limited effect for base defenses and\or industry

Quote
and got wrecked one-on-one with them the previous turn, but I hope that the Rockslide will at least bring us to parity with their fighter.
That if they did nothing to improve airforce. Also parity with their fighter would be great because their fighter looks more expensive in % of available VP

Quote
But mostly I'm not worried because I'm 99% sure they'll deploy some or all of their force to investigate our base, meaning we can use the improved base defenses.
I am 99% sure that they won't do such thing. It is unlikely that they have an assault base kind of mission or willing to spend design action on it. In fact, I expect them to avoid Europe (and maybe Egypt) for many turns.

Quote
The most they've ever deployed were 2 fighters and 1 lander
They had successful mission and reward from the competition. I think it is very likely that their max went up

Quote
Also the TAV is good to make use of the EP we just got.
I think that EP can be well spent on Phoenix pods.
Logged
They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

Happerry

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #774 on: January 21, 2018, 02:24:58 pm »

Ugh, this is a hard one. We're both in great need of more fighters and better troops. I really want to get a second base out next turn, which hopefully will improve our points and we can built an alien containment into it from the start too, but for now, with this revision action, I think I'm going to have to go for the TAV2. It doesn't matter how many UFOs we shoot down if we can't win on the ground, and it's looking to me like we're going to have to start letting the 'least damaging' ufo missions through sometime soon at this rate. The Raven-B is tempting though...

Which I really want to get to before the real Psi-bullshit starts.
Didn't we already get told in the last few missions it looks like they have a Psi-Scry or Psi-Locate of some sort running? We might want to invest in Tinfoil helmets sometime soon to block their Psi-Scan out or something.

Quote
Raven-B (0):
Landslide Missile (0):
TAV2 (4): Chiefwaffles, Madman, Cnidaros, Happerry
Logged
Forenia Forever!
GENERATION 11: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

Cnidaros

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #775 on: January 22, 2018, 12:15:18 am »

Ugh, this is a hard one. We're both in great need of more fighters and better troops. I really want to get a second base out next turn, which hopefully will improve our points and we can built an alien containment into it from the start too, but for now, with this revision action, I think I'm going to have to go for the TAV2. It doesn't matter how many UFOs we shoot down if we can't win on the ground, and it's looking to me like we're going to have to start letting the 'least damaging' ufo missions through sometime soon at this rate. The Raven-B is tempting though...

Which I really want to get to before the real Psi-bullshit starts.
Didn't we already get told in the last few missions it looks like they have a Psi-Scry or Psi-Locate of some sort running? We might want to invest in Tinfoil helmets sometime soon to block their Psi-Scan out or something.

I would also be amenable to going for a second base design next turn as backup, and to improve our VP. I like the idea of Raven-B, but reducing from 2 to 1 VP is a little ambitious for a revision, while reducing to 1.5 doesn't increase the number of Ravens we can field this turn. But if we were to get +1 or +2 VP for a new base, then that would go well with Raven-B as a good upgrade to our air combat capability, allowing us to field up to 4 Ravens!

Also, yes, some minor psi-bullshitery is already occurring (since the previous turn). It seems to be passive (reading minds to determine our next actions/trooper locations) for now, but I would rather not wait for it to go active (mind controlling our troopers to cause friendly fire) which would make it harder to capture them. I am assuming that we'll need to capture some psionic aliens to get insight as to how Psi works, not just revise a defense without knowing the nature of the attack.
Logged

Thanatos Russ

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #776 on: January 22, 2018, 01:55:10 am »

Always so underwhelming when those tokens get used.
Logged

Blood_Librarian

  • Bay Watcher
  • What is happening?
    • View Profile
Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #777 on: January 22, 2018, 10:12:13 am »

Drooling stares.

Quote
Raven-B (0):
Landslide Missile (0):
TAV2 (5): Chiefwaffles, Madman, Cnidaros, Happerry, BLood_Librarian
Logged
if you want something wacky
Quote from: ChiefWaffles, MAR Discord
I continue to be puzzled by BL's attempts to make Aratam blatantly evil

10ebbor10

  • Bay Watcher
  • DON'T PANIC
    • View Profile
Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #778 on: January 22, 2018, 02:37:34 pm »

Quote
Revision: TAV2
1 Alien Equipment Token
The TAV2 is, as the name implies, a second "attempt" at the TAV.

Surprisingly, we don't have to do much. The Rockslide system is pretty much what we were aiming for with the original TAV - recognizing and analyzing targets based on sensor data. Just grab a proper display from either the consumer market or the salvaged TAV1 project, take whatever we can salvage from our TAV1 notes, and implement the Rockslide system tuned for smaller entities using the TAV1 experience of alien computing.

The TAV2 is also based more on some salvaged alien tech to both train the Rockslide system and generally cut down on R&D time. Why reinvent the Turbolight Processor for the TAV when the aliens already have a perfectly functioning one waiting for us in their stuff?
Hard : 3 + 2 - 1 = 4  Below average (Token used)

At first, the team assigned to this operation was optimistic. Take existing software, apply to an existing platform, and put it onto the soldiers hands. That is, until they had a closer look. The existing software was made to identify grav wave powered UFO's moving at hypersonic velocities through the atmosphere, not stealthy cephalopods. The existing platform has killed several of those who used it.  The soldiers, well, those were fine. Professional lads, the bunch of them.

With a bit of luck, the engineering team managed to cobble together a platform that does (roughly) what it's supposed to do. Made largely from cobbled together bits and bobs of alien equipment, it's capable of identifying and targetting aliens. It's also a bit clunky, makeshift and uncomfortable to wear.

UFO Alert


Quote from: Bogey 019 and 020
Target: Brazil
Vehicle: 1x Medium UFO?, 1x Alien Fighter
Units present : Sectoids?, Scout Droids?, Skin crawlers?
Altitude : Departing

It appears a major enemy force slipped under our radar. Panicked calls originating from a medium sized town in Brazil point to a major operation. Calls speak of subjects resembling known descriptions of Sectoid, Scout drones, and even Skin crawlers capturing humans and bringing them to their ship. Looks like they brought in the whole circus. 

We have managed to pick up the ships now, but they're already taking off. Two signatures, one resembling the bigger alien fighters, the other much bigger, same intensity as that scout we saw before.

Quote from: Bogey 21
Target: Australia
Vehicle: 1x Medium UFO?
Altitude : Reentry

We spotted this one the moment it hit the atmosphere.  Another big UFO, heading straight for the Australian outback.

Spoiler: Technology (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)

Revision Phase

Turn 6

AABBCCDD
[/quote]
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 02:50:54 pm by 10ebbor10 »
Logged

10ebbor10

  • Bay Watcher
  • DON'T PANIC
    • View Profile
Re: Vigilo Confido : XCOM Arms Race
« Reply #779 on: January 22, 2018, 02:37:59 pm »

WHOOPS, I FORGOT THE ALIEN INVASION.

PLEASE STAND BY
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 50 51 [52] 53 54 ... 76