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Author Topic: Are there any tricks for encouraging Dwarves to take on Dumping jobs?  (Read 2319 times)

Immortal-D

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My Fortress is currently on lockdown due to siege (no burrow, just bridges/doors).  I thought I would take this time to clean up the stray boulders in a few rooms, most notably my temples and refuse pile.  In the early days, Dorfs would QSP the boulders in a matter of days.  Now, it feels like any and all Dumping jobs are just completely ignored.  I know that all items marked for Dumping count as refuse.  With that in mind, here is my Orders menu;

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As you can see, Dwarves should ignore food, ores, and wood; leaving them free to pick up garbage.  This is all indoors, there are no corpses (that I'm aware of, maybe the occasional cavern critter), and all of my animals are safe in their pens.  I've tried adding a couple new 1-tile Dump Zones, but to no avail.  Would creating a normal Stone Stockpile help at all?  Any advice is appreciated; at the very least it would be nice to have my Temples free of clutter.

PatrikLundell

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Re: Are there any tricks for encouraging Dwarves to take on Dumping jobs?
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2017, 03:41:21 pm »

I assume you've remembered to create a dumping zone and checked that it's active?
Setting them all to haul stone to stone stockpiles (equipped with wheel barrows) may be faster though (assuming you remove the dump mark, of course).
Also check that the boulders aren't forbidden.

You also didn't say what the dorfs were doing instead. Red needs fulfillment when there's FINALLY a break due to the siege would pull them off hauling duty.
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anewaname

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Re: Are there any tricks for encouraging Dwarves to take on Dumping jobs?
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2017, 04:03:40 pm »

In addition to what Patrik says, I suggest checking the 'j'obs menu. If inactive Dump Item jobs are listed, then the problem is related to your dwarfs (there is some reason they are not eligible to accept the job). If there are no Dump Item jobs, it is the items or the zone (a Dump Item will not be added to the job list until there is an item to be dumped and an active dump zone to bring it to).
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smithist

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Re: Are there any tricks for encouraging Dwarves to take on Dumping jobs?
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2017, 04:04:53 pm »

Definitely make sure they don't need to be claimed (aren't forbidden). That's almost always why mine don't dump things. I've never messed with the "ignore food/minerals/etc" work orders. Are you positive the classification of refuse for dumped stuff overrides that? I would try toggling those. Otherwise just triple check the other stuff Patrik mentioned. I would add to be absolutely sure no burrows are in play, like a civ alert.
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Immortal-D

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Re: Are there any tricks for encouraging Dwarves to take on Dumping jobs?
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2017, 04:32:03 pm »

I appreciate the thoughts.  These are all stray boulders from mining, so they are freely available.  I did a reclaim just in case, but they remain tagged for Dumping.  I thought I was all cool b/c I knew about the Stones menu.  Today I learned about the Jobs menu :-[  There are 4 Dorfs working on the Dumping jobs, and they are using the new 1-tile zones I created.  I daresay I might have filled a QSP, but that's a discussion for another time.  Everyone else is busy hauling bars, mugs, and assorted other goods.

I think my problem is that I simply don't have enough peasants for all the manual labor that has built up.  I have completely shut down all production, hopefully that will give the Dwarves time to catch up on all the hauling/dumping.  Looking at the Jobs menu again, I think that labeling my stockpiles would be beneficial (another first).

Edit: I could have sworn that naming stockpiles was a thing.  Guess not.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 04:36:44 pm by Immortal-D »
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smithist

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Re: Are there any tricks for encouraging Dwarves to take on Dumping jobs?
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2017, 05:49:38 pm »

If your fort was super busy that might be it. Dumping it a pretty low priority task iirc.
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Acolyte

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Re: Are there any tricks for encouraging Dwarves to take on Dumping jobs?
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2017, 08:28:24 pm »

They aren't outside, are they? If so, you need to enable "Dwarves collect refuse outside.

   - SHane
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Kobold6

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Re: Are there any tricks for encouraging Dwarves to take on Dumping jobs?
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2017, 10:30:35 pm »

In your screenshot you have 'dwarves ignore minerals' set. Could be the problem with hauling rocks.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Are there any tricks for encouraging Dwarves to take on Dumping jobs?
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2017, 04:05:09 am »

Stockpile naming is not a vanilla feature, but DF provides it (which I use liberally for stockpiles, levers,...). And yes, it's handy to see that all the cancellation spam concerns the refuse stockpile, for instance, rather than having to find out which stockpile #43 is.

As far as I understand QSP originally referred to refuse dumping onto stockpiles. As mine carts were introduced Minecart QSPs were invented.
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Immortal-D

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Re: Are there any tricks for encouraging Dwarves to take on Dumping jobs?
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2017, 08:24:00 am »

In your screenshot you have 'dwarves ignore minerals' set. Could be the problem with hauling rocks.
I'm fairly certain that minerals only refers to raw ores, and these are just normal boulders.

Stockpile naming is not a vanilla feature, but DF provides it (which I use liberally for stockpiles, levers,...). And yes, it's handy to see that all the cancellation spam concerns the refuse stockpile, for instance, rather than having to find out which stockpile #43 is.

As far as I understand QSP originally referred to refuse dumping onto stockpiles. As mine carts were introduced Minecart QSPs were invented.
Did you mean to say that DFHack provides that feature?  I'll have to lookup what command that is.

PatrikLundell

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Re: Are there any tricks for encouraging Dwarves to take on Dumping jobs?
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2017, 10:32:25 am »

In your screenshot you have 'dwarves ignore minerals' set. Could be the problem with hauling rocks.
I'm fairly certain that minerals only refers to raw ores, and these are just normal boulders.

Stockpile naming is not a vanilla feature, but DF provides it (which I use liberally for stockpiles, levers,...). And yes, it's handy to see that all the cancellation spam concerns the refuse stockpile, for instance, rather than having to find out which stockpile #43 is.

As far as I understand QSP originally referred to refuse dumping onto stockpiles. As mine carts were introduced Minecart QSPs were invented.
Did you mean to say that DFHack provides that feature?  I'll have to lookup what command that is.
It's shift-ctrl-n (I had to start DF to check, as I wasn't sure [and my memory turned out to be wrong anyway, so it was probably for the best]). For a stockpile press the keys when it's selected with 'q'.
From memory it's ctrl-alt-n

Edit: My flaky memory wasn't intended to be revealed that clearly...
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 04:23:36 am by PatrikLundell »
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Larix

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Re: Are there any tricks for encouraging Dwarves to take on Dumping jobs?
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2017, 11:36:06 am »

In your screenshot you have 'dwarves ignore minerals' set. Could be the problem with hauling rocks.
I'm fairly certain that minerals only refers to raw ores, and these are just normal boulders.

No, it's all stone in general. Just like the other "ignore" options delete all wood-hauling and food-hauling jobs, this one blocks all stone-hauling, it doesn't sub-filter for type.

Considering dumping is a refuse hauling job regardless of item type[fn], blocking stone hauling should not prevent the dumping of stone; i'd still try and see if unblocking minerals changes anything. I'd also revoke the "no cancellation notes" setting, because when dwarven labour misfires, this setting tends to torpedo your troubleshooting.

[footnote] i suspect the hauling labours are not sorted by the item hauled, but rather by the target location, which is the actual agency issuing the hauling job. I.e. stone stockpile -> stone hauling; dumping zone -> refuse hauling; trade depot -> trade goods hauling.
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Immortal-D

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Re: Are there any tricks for encouraging Dwarves to take on Dumping jobs?
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2017, 08:23:51 pm »

l-n (I had to start DF to check, as I wasn't sure [and my memory turned out to be wrong anyway, so it was probably for the best]). For a stockpile press the keys when it's selected with 'q'.
From memory it's ctrl-alt-n
Oh man, this is the coolest thing I have learned about DFHack since ctrl-v.

In your screenshot you have 'dwarves ignore minerals' set. Could be the problem with hauling rocks.
I'm fairly certain that minerals only refers to raw ores, and these are just normal boulders.

No, it's all stone in general. Just like the other "ignore" options delete all wood-hauling and food-hauling jobs, this one blocks all stone-hauling, it doesn't sub-filter for type.

Considering dumping is a refuse hauling job regardless of item type[fn], blocking stone hauling should not prevent the dumping of stone; i'd still try and see if unblocking minerals changes anything. I'd also revoke the "no cancellation notes" setting, because when dwarven labour misfires, this setting tends to torpedo your troubleshooting.

[footnote] i suspect the hauling labours are not sorted by the item hauled, but rather by the target location, which is the actual agency issuing the hauling job. I.e. stone stockpile -> stone hauling; dumping zone -> refuse hauling; trade depot -> trade goods hauling.
I have just confirmed that an item marked for dumping will overwrite other Order commands of that type.  I still have Ores forbidden, but my Dwarves are dragging the stray basalt and granite boulders to my new dump zones.

Sanctume

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Re: Are there any tricks for encouraging Dwarves to take on Dumping jobs?
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2017, 10:48:19 am »

My preferred method of clearing boulders from digsite is to create either a mason, mechanic, and/or craft workshop. 

edit: I create the stone stockpile(s) to cover the stones I want used up.
Then create a stone stockpile on the nearby stones; set to take from links only, and give to workshops. 

Then set jobs on the mason and craft on repeat to make stuff. edit: with Do it Now! option 

Magma safe stone = mechanisms; ugly stones = large pots; choice stones = door, table, throne, cabinet, coffer.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 10:52:13 am by Sanctume »
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escondida

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Re: Are there any tricks for encouraging Dwarves to take on Dumping jobs?
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2017, 01:42:21 pm »

Immortal-D, you could probably also benefit by learning to use minecarts; you can use them to quantum stockpile stone (or other objects), and you get the benefit that dwarves can use wheelbarrows to get the stone to the stockpile that feeds the minecart, so things will go much more quickly (and with no need to fiddle with dumping).

The long and short of it: create a stone stockpile that allows wheelbarrow use. Next to it, have your dorfs carve a single tile of track (to do this, first smooth the room and then designate two tiles of track to be carved; you may then un-designate one of the two). Finally b-(C)onstruct a track stop on the tile of track, set to dump in any direction except back into the stockpile you've designated.

Now that that's done, create a single-tile stone stockpile wherever you set the stop to dump, and create a (H)auling route that takes from your feeder stockpile and dumps when full, and that has a minecart.

It sounds like a lot, but once you learn the trick it's very handy. You can also use this as the basis for learning about minecarts in general, which are a cool feature.
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