Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 79

Author Topic: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]  (Read 54176 times)

LoSboccacc

  • Bay Watcher
  • Σὺν Ἀθηνᾷ καὶ χεῖρα κίνει
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2017, 06:41:11 pm »

And no hope?  Sure there was nothing through most of it, but did you leave before the last few minutes of the movie or are you just being hyperbolic?

well basically the ending was "No one answered the Gondor call" - that'll probably get rectified come episode 9, but even that slimmer of hope lasted 6 whole seconds, just slightly longer than the hope about the rebel base being shielded enough to last a siege.
Logged

NRDL

  • Bay Watcher
  • I Actually Like Elves
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2017, 07:15:07 pm »

I'm pretty sure one of the themes of this movie is that you need to hope, regardless of whether hope gets rewarded.

"Hope is like the sun" and all that.
Logged
GOD DAMN IT NRDL.
NRDL will roll a die and decide how sadistic and insane he's feeling well you do.

Urist McScoopbeard

  • Bay Watcher
  • Damnit Scoopz!
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2017, 08:48:20 pm »

I'm pretty sure one of the themes of this movie is that you need to hope, regardless of whether hope gets rewarded.

"Hope is like the sun" and all that.

I think it seems that way because so much of the movie is each character unsuccessfully pursuing their unreachable goals.
Logged
This conversation is getting disturbing fast, disturbingly erotic.

MorleyDev

  • Bay Watcher
  • "It is not enough for it to just work."
    • View Profile
    • MorleyDev
Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2017, 07:07:39 am »

You know, it probably says something that Knights of the Old Republic II, a game that explicitly set out to deconstruct the Star Wars universe, felt more in keeping with Star Wars than The Force Awakens did to me.

Also it's amazing how Mad Max: Fury Road managed to get so much right that TFA, released around the same time, got wrong. I really dislike JJ Abrams directing style, it's basically the directorial equivalent of ADHD. No time to focus or sit, no time to think, no time to say or do anything of value, no time to actually develop characters, just always gotta be movinggoingfastgottagofast and rely on having things happening so rapidly that it doesn't matter how interesting or meaningful those things actually are.

And yet Fury Road, a film that is essentially one giant car chase, managed to have so much that TFA lacked: Long and wide tracking scenes that let you take in what was happening (whilst also being a welcome throw back to 80s styles of films), and developed and fleshed out characters with actual character growth.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 12:26:04 pm by MorleyDev »
Logged

Kot

  • Bay Watcher
  • 2 Patriotic 4 U
    • View Profile
    • Tiny Pixel Soldiers
Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2017, 06:11:18 pm »

Ahahaha what the fuck was that.
I avoided spoilers but it have hit my ears that apparently new movie is terrible, but holy shit I have not realized how terrible it is. It's not a good Star Wars movie, not even a good movie, it's fucking terrible. I will never speak one more bad word about prequels, like, even Jar Jar was better design choice and was more grounded in Star Wars universe than this is.

EDIT:
Also, HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA THIS IS JUST DISNEY SPITTING ON THE GRAVE ISIN'T IT HAHAHAHAHA. Obviously a spoiler.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 06:13:17 pm by Kot »
Logged
Kot finishes his morning routine in the same way he always does, by burning a scale replica of Saint Basil's Cathedral on the windowsill.

inteuniso

  • Bay Watcher
  • Functionalized carbon is the source.
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2017, 06:56:40 pm »

Ahahaha what the fuck was that.
I avoided spoilers but it have hit my ears that apparently new movie is terrible, but holy shit I have not realized how terrible it is. It's not a good Star Wars movie, not even a good movie, it's fucking terrible. I will never speak one more bad word about prequels, like, even Jar Jar was better design choice and was more grounded in Star Wars universe than this is.

EDIT:
Also, HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA THIS IS JUST DISNEY SPITTING ON THE GRAVE ISIN'T IT HAHAHAHAHA. Obviously a spoiler.

lol that was long spoiled before I watched that.
Logged
Lol scratch that I'm building a marijuana factory.

Urist McScoopbeard

  • Bay Watcher
  • Damnit Scoopz!
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2017, 08:38:55 pm »

I agree with you, and that particular scene is... my god, is it bad.
Logged
This conversation is getting disturbing fast, disturbingly erotic.

Mephansteras

  • Bay Watcher
  • Forger of Civilizations
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2017, 08:45:41 pm »

Eh, I liked it. Leia was always supposed to be gifted with the force in the old Expanded Universe novels, so it seemed like a nice nod to that to me.

Very polarizing movie. Most people seemed to either really enjoy it or really *not* enjoy it.

Personally, I have issues with decisions in both 7 and 8 but found them eminently more watchable than the prequels ever were. Those I find nearly unwatchable the second time through, while both 7 and 8 were improved on the next viewing.
Logged
Civilization Forge Mod v2.80: Adding in new races, equipment, animals, plants, metals, etc. Now with Alchemy and Libraries! Variety to spice up DF! (For DF 0.34.10)
Come play Mafia with us!
"Let us maintain our chill composure." - Toady One

NRDL

  • Bay Watcher
  • I Actually Like Elves
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2017, 08:56:26 pm »

I'll admit, that scene could have been done better. That being said, my jaw dropped when Leia was sucked out into the vacuum of space the first time I watched. It felt both emotionally devastating, and because of Carrie Fisher's passing, also a bit like salt in a wound.

I was both relieved and really confused when she lived, I really didn't want Princess Leia to go out in such an undignified and tragic way.
Logged
GOD DAMN IT NRDL.
NRDL will roll a die and decide how sadistic and insane he's feeling well you do.

Kot

  • Bay Watcher
  • 2 Patriotic 4 U
    • View Profile
    • Tiny Pixel Soldiers
Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2017, 09:52:48 pm »

Eh, I liked it. Leia was always supposed to be gifted with the force in the old Expanded Universe novels, so it seemed like a nice nod to that to me.
Her being gifted doesn't have to manifest in dumb ways.

I'll admit, that scene could have been done better. That being said, my jaw dropped when Leia was sucked out into the vacuum of space the first time I watched. It felt both emotionally devastating, and because of Carrie Fisher's passing, also a bit like salt in a wound.

I was both relieved and really confused when she lived, I really didn't want Princess Leia to go out in such an undignified and tragic way.
So, you mean, the scene in a movie *gave you emotions*? That's so weird and out of place, movies giving people emotions, right? If anything, the Leia move felt like... pretty much bullshit move that serves no purpose other than to make it look like Leia did a thing in the movie too. I would have accepted her death because it would serve a purpose in the story - as much as Star Wars is noblebright, people can still die, and would also make previous scene where Ben hestiated from firing meaningful. Instead it's just cheap "you thought she died but then FORCE MAGIC and she is fine buy the figurine Leia is badass", and now they have to fucking worry how to kill her off in next movie since Carrie Fisher is dead.
Speaking of that, what the insane fuck was the goddamn pink haired Mary Sue Leia-lite (and to lesser extent the big-nosed Leia-lite)? What was her purpose in the plot other than to be condenscending and basically incompetent, as she didin't tell anyone of her plan *for no good reason* which directly lead to said plain failing miserably. What the fuck is with all those random-ass characters that appear out of nowhere and suddenly we are supposed to think they're important or something, just to get them killed next scene/movie? Is this all just to get more characters pushed into merch?
What's with all those random dumb gags? The whole Finn intro with him banging his head and in leaky suit, and all those goddamn fucking completly retarded and out of place jokes? The fucking irons on the ship? Great fucking joke, wow. I get it, comic relief is a thing, but I'd prefer if comic relief didin't came out as forced. For instance, initial Luke Yoda-ism was pretty decent, as it was a nice callback to Yoda, and was somewhat justified by him being an old grumpy hermit now.
I mean right, old Star Wars had a fuckton of background characters who then had their own stories developed, but none of them felt like they got forcefully inserted and got too much spotlight for no real reason, it felt natural and consistent, meanwhile in the Mouse Ears Trilogy so far it has been incredibly hard to form any sort of attachement to any character. Ironically enough, the one of more popular characters at the time was the memetic TR-8R who was one of few characters to follow old scheme of "we find which characters people like and only then we merch that shit".
I'm not even starting to complain about the implications that constant use of hyperdriving where noone has yet hyperdrived in those movies create (why the fuck even bother with guns, just hypedrive small ships into big ones), curving blasters, gravity bombs in space (although I must say I liked the idea of B-17s in space, but the way it was actually pulled off... eh), the apparent lack of any other political entity in Galaxy than First Order (was entire New Republic contained in that one system that got blown up? Where the fuck is everyone? Why does it seem like the First Order which formally is just bunch of paramilitary dudes is more powerful that Empire ever was?) and other shit because that's just nitpicking.

Probably though, my main problem with this all is... not even all that bullshit. It's that EU died for this. Solos died for this. Mara Jade died for this. Kyle Katarn died for this. Yuuzhan Vong died for this. The New Republic and New Jedi Order died for this. Goddamn Thrawn died for this (before you say it - that's not my Thrawn), and dozens of years of relatively self-consistent writing and pretty damn great stories died. We will never see the true new trilogy as it should have been, thought out and retconned to hell and back to create something that makes sense, and that is a goddamn shame.
Logged
Kot finishes his morning routine in the same way he always does, by burning a scale replica of Saint Basil's Cathedral on the windowsill.

NRDL

  • Bay Watcher
  • I Actually Like Elves
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2017, 10:20:04 pm »

There's still a lot of Legends stuff that can be worked into canon, that's actually one of the most exciting prospects for me.
Logged
GOD DAMN IT NRDL.
NRDL will roll a die and decide how sadistic and insane he's feeling well you do.

Zanzetkuken The Great

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Wizard Dragon
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2017, 10:24:18 pm »

Eh, I liked it. Leia was always supposed to be gifted with the force in the old Expanded Universe novels, so it seemed like a nice nod to that to me.
Her being gifted doesn't have to manifest in dumb ways.

I'll admit, that scene could have been done better. That being said, my jaw dropped when Leia was sucked out into the vacuum of space the first time I watched. It felt both emotionally devastating, and because of Carrie Fisher's passing, also a bit like salt in a wound.

I was both relieved and really confused when she lived, I really didn't want Princess Leia to go out in such an undignified and tragic way.
So, you mean, the scene in a movie *gave you emotions*? That's so weird and out of place, movies giving people emotions, right? If anything, the Leia move felt like... pretty much bullshit move that serves no purpose other than to make it look like Leia did a thing in the movie too. I would have accepted her death because it would serve a purpose in the story - as much as Star Wars is noblebright, people can still die, and would also make previous scene where Ben hestiated from firing meaningful. Instead it's just cheap "you thought she died but then FORCE MAGIC and she is fine buy the figurine Leia is badass", and now they have to fucking worry how to kill her off in next movie since Carrie Fisher is dead.
Speaking of that, what the insane fuck was the goddamn pink haired Mary Sue Leia-lite (and to lesser extent the big-nosed Leia-lite)? What was her purpose in the plot other than to be condenscending and basically incompetent, as she didin't tell anyone of her plan *for no good reason* which directly lead to said plain failing miserably. What the fuck is with all those random-ass characters that appear out of nowhere and suddenly we are supposed to think they're important or something, just to get them killed next scene/movie? Is this all just to get more characters pushed into merch?
What's with all those random dumb gags? The whole Finn intro with him banging his head and in leaky suit, and all those goddamn fucking completly retarded and out of place jokes? The fucking irons on the ship? Great fucking joke, wow. I get it, comic relief is a thing, but I'd prefer if comic relief didin't came out as forced. For instance, initial Luke Yoda-ism was pretty decent, as it was a nice callback to Yoda, and was somewhat justified by him being an old grumpy hermit now.
I mean right, old Star Wars had a fuckton of background characters who then had their own stories developed, but none of them felt like they got forcefully inserted and got too much spotlight for no real reason, it felt natural and consistent, meanwhile in the Mouse Ears Trilogy so far it has been incredibly hard to form any sort of attachement to any character. Ironically enough, the one of more popular characters at the time was the memetic TR-8R who was one of few characters to follow old scheme of "we find which characters people like and only then we merch that shit".
I'm not even starting to complain about the implications that constant use of hyperdriving where noone has yet hyperdrived in those movies create (why the fuck even bother with guns, just hypedrive small ships into big ones), curving blasters, gravity bombs in space (although I must say I liked the idea of B-17s in space, but the way it was actually pulled off... eh), the apparent lack of any other political entity in Galaxy than First Order (was entire New Republic contained in that one system that got blown up? Where the fuck is everyone? Why does it seem like the First Order which formally is just bunch of paramilitary dudes is more powerful that Empire ever was?) and other shit because that's just nitpicking.

Vice Admiral Mary Sue: I swear I saw someone on youtube mention that there's a theory floating around Tumblr that she may have had something to do with Han and Leia's marriage falling apart.  And it wasn't something between her and Han.  Only something I heard about through word of mouth, but given what little of her backstory I've heard about that was in a book and the general disposition of Tumblr...

Hyperdrive suicide: Ships are expensive to produce.  What you really want would be a coil gun that then sends the projectile into hyperspace.  Bonus, you can shell a planet from star systems away giving your enemies no warning.

Lack of Political Entity: I seem to the New Republic was the only other power, and they had disbanded their military.  That's the reason why the 'Resistance' was needed.

New Star Wars canon.  Where literally everyone is incompetent when it comes to military matters (Why the hell did those Resurgent classes not help the Mandator IV (speaking of, what the hell's with that design?) at all...Hell, why didn't any support fleet not do a single thing?).
Logged
Quote from: Eric Blank
It's Zanzetkuken The Great. He's a goddamn wizard-dragon. He will make it so, and it will forever be.
Quote from: 2016 Election IRC
<DozebomLolumzalis> you filthy god-damn ninja wizard dragon

NRDL

  • Bay Watcher
  • I Actually Like Elves
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2017, 10:31:21 pm »

Han and Leia stopped talking to each other before the Force Awakens because seeing each other reminded them of their son. I don't think it was ever mentioned that their marriage ended in any official capacity, or that they fell out of love for whatever reason.
Logged
GOD DAMN IT NRDL.
NRDL will roll a die and decide how sadistic and insane he's feeling well you do.

Urist McScoopbeard

  • Bay Watcher
  • Damnit Scoopz!
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2017, 12:24:25 am »

There's still a lot of Legends stuff that can be worked into canon, that's actually one of the most exciting prospects for me.

Not to rain on your parade man, but there is about a 0% chance that Disney makes a good EU movie.

I'll admit, that scene could have been done better. That being said, my jaw dropped when Leia was sucked out into the vacuum of space the first time I watched. It felt both emotionally devastating, and because of Carrie Fisher's passing, also a bit like salt in a wound.

I was both relieved and really confused when she lived, I really didn't want Princess Leia to go out in such an undignified and tragic way.

Pursuant to my last assertion and not to be a dick, but liking 8 has literally come down to two things I have seen, people either like it "just because" or hate it "because there are numerous glaring plot and design errors and [insert any number of other valid criticisms here]" Like... I don't get when people "just enjoy it for what it is", would you just enjoy an undercooked steak or raw eggs for what they are? How about wet concrete? A bed with no mattress?

It is a bad a movie. If you liked it, that's fine, but it IS the worst Star Wars movie ever made by quite a bit, and you can arrive at that conclusion with basically ANY analysis of the film. We're talking Transformers: Age of Extinction bad.
Logged
This conversation is getting disturbing fast, disturbingly erotic.

Mephansteras

  • Bay Watcher
  • Forger of Civilizations
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2017, 12:41:36 am »

It all really seems to come down to a matter of taste. You either like it, and can mentally accept and rationalize what they did and make it fit your mental view of Star Wars. Or you can't, and you can't stand it.

Kind of like how a lot of people who grew up with the prequels as kids instead of the original trilogy actually like the prequels way better. You can argue until you're blue in the face about all the flaws of 1-3 and why 4-6 are better movies, but you can't actually convince someone to change what they like or don't like.

You have as much luck trying to get someone who hates fish to agree that your baked salmon is better than their grilled cheese. Whatever merits you talk about won't change what their taste buds are telling them.




On a separate note:

I just had an epiphany about 7/8. They make more sense if you think of them as video games with Rey as the player character. The Force Effects are bigger and flashier, because that's how things are in video games. She does all sorts of stuff with generally high skill, because that's how it works for the player in most video games. She picks up new skills shortly after seeing them in action, because that's how it works in video games. (Ok, gross generalizations about video games there, but you get the idea. I don't think I'd blink at lot of the stuff she pull if she was the main character in a lot of video games.)
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 01:56:30 am by Mephansteras »
Logged
Civilization Forge Mod v2.80: Adding in new races, equipment, animals, plants, metals, etc. Now with Alchemy and Libraries! Variety to spice up DF! (For DF 0.34.10)
Come play Mafia with us!
"Let us maintain our chill composure." - Toady One
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 79