Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[NullForceOmega]

I don't think that's normal?  Princess him(?) self seemed to think that he was trapped in a pitiful blue form until Allison chose to release him.

Maybe he literally remembered his own name?  Knowing the secret names of Yisun is what gives the keys powers (presumably actually knowing the names causes your brain to explode and that's why they need the keys).  Names seem to have power in this universe.  Or maybe its a Gurren Laggan spiral energy thing and as beings of chaos demons can do whatever they want if they're determined enough.  I dunno.  You're right that it doesn't seem consistent.  I think our friendly neighborhood ebon was someone truly terrifying in the past.

What confuses me is how many people made comments like "welp, guess I'm not straight after all" after seeing the demon with eyes sticking out of its chest and stomach.  Like yeah, 20 foot tall buff dude not wearing clothes, sure.  But there are some places eyes should not be.  Gaze into the six pack and the six pack gazes also

Inasmuch as Princess Mamoru etc has a sex, it is female, so the above marked points are incorrect.  I have no doubt that the black flame itself is genderless, but the shape imposed on Vladok/Princess by Allison is female.

As far as how she/it changed from blue to red, KSBD straight up states that demons strive to shed their names so they can unleash the full power of their flame and move closer to ebon, the exact mechanism seems to be completely arbitrary and situational.  There have been several times that Cio seems to pick up a red tint to her mask, usually when angry or frustrated.

[Egan_BW]

I believe the tumblr said something about this, around when Princess ascended to red. The general gist is that usually devils use humans to shed their names and change color, but if their will is strong enough it can happen spontaneously. Princess has an easier time of this due to remembering being Vladoc.

Q
How can Princess transform here? I thought devils only advanced by making deals. And when Princess says she "remembered", what does she mean? It seems like she already remembered being an Ebon devil.

A
Devils can advance by making deals, and need to make deals or consume flesh to survive, but they are absolutely capable of growing in rank and color by their own. It’s rare but possible. It happens when devils gain a greater understanding of themselves, and it’s the only way that ebon devils come about. That’s why ebons are so rare.

[EnigmaticHat]

I don't think that's normal?  Princess him(?) self seemed to think that he was trapped in a pitiful blue form until Allison chose to release him.

Maybe he literally remembered his own name?  Knowing the secret names of Yisun is what gives the keys powers (presumably actually knowing the names causes your brain to explode and that's why they need the keys).  Names seem to have power in this universe.  Or maybe its a Gurren Laggan spiral energy thing and as beings of chaos demons can do whatever they want if they're determined enough.  I dunno.  You're right that it doesn't seem consistent.  I think our friendly neighborhood ebon was someone truly terrifying in the past.

What confuses me is how many people made comments like "welp, guess I'm not straight after all" after seeing the demon with eyes sticking out of its chest and stomach.  Like yeah, 20 foot tall buff dude not wearing clothes, sure.  But there are some places eyes should not be.  Gaze into the six pack and the six pack gazes also

Inasmuch as Princess Mamoru etc has a sex, it is female, so the above marked points are incorrect.  I have no doubt that the black flame itself is genderless, but the shape imposed on Vladok/Princess by Allison is female.

As far as how she/it changed from blue to red, KSBD straight up states that demons strive to shed their names so they can unleash the full power of their flame and move closer to ebon, the exact mechanism seems to be completely arbitrary and situational.  There have been several times that Cio seems to pick up a red tint to her mask, usually when angry or frustrated.

It def seems like the Ebon of unknown name was male tho.  And the new red demon (which presumably has a different name in that they have one less?) looks masculine to my eyes.  Well, more androgynous I guess, but masculine if anything.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Abbadon's statement on devil genders is that it's pure affectation aping humans, as are essentially all traits held by devils.

[Egan_BW]

Devils as coherent individuals are a human-made construct. They gave the hot black flame names and faces, so now it has names and faces. Both angels and devils are theoretically immortal and invulnerable, on a soul-flame level. But you can destroy an Angel's body in the physical world, forcing it into the void, and you can destroy a devil's mask, turning them from a human-like personality to just another part of the massive consciousness called the Hot Black Flame. Likewise killing an Angel in the void doesn't "kill" it, but it will come back as a different person. When Angels reincarnate they come back with roughly the same personality, but without the memories of their previous incarnation.

So Hot Black and Cold White soul flames are immortal, but the identities that we think of as being the "person" attached to that flame is not.

Hmm, most of what I just said is unrelated to what you guys were talking about. I just find this stuff fascinating.

[NullForceOmega]

It def seems like the Ebon of unknown name was male tho.  And the new red demon (which presumably has a different name in that they have one less?) looks masculine to my eyes.  Well, more androgynous I guess, but masculine if anything.

I agree that Vladok is possessed of a masculine appearance, and Princess's red form is more masculine/androgynous (possibly reflecting the memories of being 'something greater'), I wasn't really trying to argue against that, but my statement may have been unclear.

If I were to venture a guess as to why Vladok/Princess was more feminine in its blue form, it would be that the shape imposed on it was directed by Allison's unconscious.  Confronted by a terrifying entity of arbitrary power she immediately affixed the name "princess" to it, and (I am trying to draw from what we know of Allison but there is supposition here) Allison seems to view a "princess" as someone inherently powerless, thereby making the devil far less horrible to her perception.  This was followed by "Mamoru", a name that made the being more familiar to her drunken, Sailor Moon addled mind, when more names were needed she scrambled and just went with whatever she could think of (in this case the names of alcoholic beverages she was familiar with.)

That may be the reason that Princess was able to shed those names more easily, as they had less import to her binder (Allison.)

[MetalSlimeHunt]

What does a dragonslayer say to a dragon who wishes for death?

[Baffler]

I think you just take a moment to be grateful that they've made your job easy for you.

[smjjames]

The priests wouldn't let her kill Mammon though.

Since he is naturally immortal, it makes sense that he wouldn't try to keep young because he wouldn't die of old age. Meanwhile, the rest have some sort of method to perpetuate immortality, Mottom has the fruit, Gog-Agog is apparently some sort of hivemind of worms (makes me think Sid Meiers Alpha Centauri kind of thing), Jagganoth is immortal due to the iron angel feathers stuck in him, Jadis is in some state of suspended animation. According to the wiki (as said in one of the tumblr pages), Solomon David is apparently immortal due to martial arts practices, and it's not clear what makes Incubus immortal. Although that blood pool at one point could be a hint as to what makes him immortal.

[Egan_BW]

Oh. So the priests are the people who actually got past all those defences, tried to stick a sword into a giant monster, and ended up pitying it. And now they've lived here long enough to have children.

[EnigmaticHat]

The priests wouldn't let her kill Mammon though.

Since he is naturally immortal, it makes sense that he wouldn't try to keep young because he wouldn't die of old age. Meanwhile, the rest have some sort of method to perpetuate immortality, Mottom has the fruit, Gog-Agog is apparently some sort of hivemind of worms (makes me think Sid Meiers Alpha Centauri kind of thing), Jagganoth is immortal due to the iron angel feathers stuck in him, Jadis is in some state of suspended animation. According to the wiki (as said in one of the tumblr pages), Solomon David is apparently immortal due to martial arts practices, and it's not clear what makes Incubus immortal. Although that blood pool at one point could be a hint as to what makes him immortal.

One thing that I'm wondering is if Mottom actually needs any help to be immortal.  Having the secret names of YISUN isn't literally the same thing as being all powerful, but it sure seems like the next best thing.  Mottom has a seventh of that power at her beck and call; and the particular names she has give her power over living things (particularly plants).  She turned a man into a tree and another into flower petals without breaking a sweat.  Seems to me altering her own form at will or creating another should be little more difficult.  Or duplicating the fruit of youth simply by her own will.

We know that the keys' power is best wielded by those who just do things without permission or second thought.  Mottom never broke free of fear or of her husband's influence.  She practically said as much that she hates herself and her position.  Living or dying, or finding a suitable replacement and fucking off to live somewhere else, all should have been within her power if she would just pick one with confidence and stick with it.

I think Mammon too is not adept at wielding power, but in a different sense.  The bit that sticks with me from his intro is that he cares about NOTHING but the count.  No friends, no other goals, just the dragon and his horde.  He may have the confidence to wield power, but he lacks purpose.  Its like he had a magic sword of legend and hung it over his fireplace.  Doesn't matter how sharp you are, can't cut anything if you don't take a swing.

[NullForceOmega]

I mean, Zoss didn't seem to need any help to stay young (staying alive on the other hand...)  I think that The Seven don't really know what they have or how to really tap into it (at least those that we have really met, not the one-off appearances), they all seem a bit lacking really.  Except Jagganoth.  That dude is actually scary on several levels.

[smjjames]

Dunno what’s up with Zoss, it seems like he is able to have the same demigodly powers without the key.

Jagganoth is supposed to be like, the war god of all war gods, though we haven’t seen it yet.

Incubus’s supposed power is to unlock ambition, but it really just seems like he has a talent for seeing ambition in others and coaxing/encouraging it via whatever means.

Also, I suspect that each of the seven is going to have some sort of human weakness. Mottom has (had? Now that the tree husband is dead...) her crippling fear, Mammons mind is clearly not as sharp as it was in his youth. Mammon is certainly naturally immortal, but isn’t blessed with eternal youth like the others. Dunno what sort of ‘human’ weakness Gog-Agog would have since she’s clearly the most inhuman of the group.

[Max™]

Zoss uh, doesn't currently have powers really, besides ghostly exposition giving as a sort of afterimage stuck in the key he stuck in Alice's head.

[Egan_BW]

Remember that Zoss broke into throne by force of will and killed all the prime angels defending it twice before even channeling the power from Metatron that he used to make the keys. He's a somewhat different beast from the Seven, who seem to draw most of their power from the keys they stole.
I don't think he's an imprintation on the key either, I think he just legit isn't stopped by being dead.