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Author Topic: Ghost after old age  (Read 1210 times)

Luriant

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Ghost after old age
« on: January 05, 2018, 08:04:26 pm »

I have a question about ghost and old age.

From Science on Ghosts
Ghosts can and will grow up (if they came back as a child) and die of old age.

If a dwarves die in battle, i create a slab, wait until the dwarf have more than 170 years, and remove the slab.

a) No ghost appear, because is above max age?
b) The ghost can appear?

Or in other words, if Sethatos remove the graveyard of Archcrystal, how many ghosts will appear?

And goblins and elf, without maxage tag, have eternal ghost?
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Luriant

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Re: Ghost after old age
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2018, 05:22:30 pm »

Because nobody reply the answer, i make some science, and i think the wiki is incorrect (or i don't understand the explanation).
Using Dfhack in 43.03 (32 bits), with gm-editor to change the maximum age [old-year have year and old-timer have tick of the year of the max age death]

Embark in year 5, save and backup save:
Save 1: Atomsmash 6 dwarves, after some months, ghost appear. Change Old-time to the next tick , after waiting some time the ghost don't die.

Save 2: Edit max age, 6 dwarves die of max age in the next tick (Old-year 5, old-timer 2). After some months, 1 ghost rise and haunt the fort. Using gm-edit: the ghost is over the the max age and exist.

==============================
Quote from: Wiki
Ghosts can and will grow up (if they came back as a child) and die of old age

This line is incorrect, a ghost can exist even after the time designed to die of old age.
I don't see any other parameter in 43.03 or 43.05 with Max age, only Year/tick of birth, dead and curse (if any).
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Ghost after old age
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2018, 05:54:22 pm »

I haven't answered as I do not know them. However, I believe your investigation is flawed, because you changed the time at which characters would die of old age rather than the maximum life span of the species. If that controlled ghost existence dorfs dying of old age would never result in ghosts. You should probably change the maximum age of dorfs (in the raws), generate a new world, and test the hypothesis there, to see if ghosts disappear when the maximum age of the species is passed. If you'd do that investigation you might as well speed up the maturation of dorfs as well, to see if ghostly children grow up or not.
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Sethatos

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Re: Ghost after old age
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2018, 06:54:36 pm »

Or you can test it on the save itself. Here:

http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=13195

That's Archcrystal in its 393rd year. Most of the old slabs are in the northwest corner a few levels below the F2 zoom. You'll have to remove the coffins too as most dwarves are buried. Good luck!
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Luriant

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Re: Ghost after old age
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2018, 04:05:34 pm »

After some test, dwarves that die from old age raise from the tomb.
Ghost with 200 years; over the limit 170 years, the maximum lifespan of a dwarf.

I don't make test about ghost child growing to adult, or ghost reaching the max age date.

-----
From the wiki:
Ghosts may disappear suddenly, and if they do, their entry in the Dead/Missing list will disappear as well. When they are put to rest in this state, their entry will reappear.
-----

The ghost don't disappear, but moving between floors, out of dwarven vision cause the game to "lost track" of the ghost (using F:follow).
Using DFHACK reveal solve the problem, and the game don't lost track of the ghost (until some announce need the attention).

Elite Marksman ghost go to the barrack, and planter ghost go to meeting hall. I don't know the effect of profession in the ghost behavior.

I have some suggestion about old age. I found this post in reddit about ghost found dead of dehydration.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/6azer1/ghost_found_dead_of_dehydration/
If a Dwarves is dead of old age, the ghost appear, and the corpse is found, the game report "Ghostly Urist is dead from old age."
If the ghost is out of view (and out of units list) somebody can think that the ghost die from old age.

As result, i see that ghost/slabs/coffins is increasing in the fortress.
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