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Author Topic: Collecting all the raw changes that add flavor but leave game balance alone.  (Read 2620 times)

Meph

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Since I almost finished the vanilla DF tileset I'm working on, I thought about another way to make the game visually more interesting; or at least more interesting without mod-content that changes the game balance.

This is what I came up with:

 - init/worldgen: A collection of world-gen presets. Real life countries, fantasy-worlds from other fiction, themed worlds like volcano or evil or good.

 - data/sound: More .ogg background songs. Not my quite métier and probably very subjective. Also redundant since soundsense exists.

 - data/speech: More entries for adv-mode talks. Bit silly considering that my twbt-heavy tileset is not really intended for adv-mode and many things look really odd in it.

 - A workshop that runs dfhacks "open-legends" from fort-mode. That allows players free access to it without breaking immersion. I actually wrote something like this when open-legends was new, but there was a critical bug when continuing fort mode afterwards. I hope that's been fixed. (?)

 - Decorational workshops. I have about 250 different sprites in the tileset that you can only see when you build them as a workshop, using Roses building-subtype-change to keep the list in the build menu short. Lanterns or fountains you can turn on/off, signs for every type of industry, different floor/roof tiles, gardens, etc. I could expand on that.

 - Carbon copies of dwarves, elves, humans, goblins and kobolds that use different graphics. For example 5 dwarf_1, dwarf_2, etc. creatures, but one looks like the normal dwarf, another has brighter bears and is taller, another is smaller with black beards, one looks evil, yadda yadda. Aka the design of the main races could be a bit randomized between worlds. Wouldn't change game balance. Visiting races could also get the same treatment, like viking-humans in one world, but arabic humans in another. High-elves, or wood-elves. Hob-goblins or night goblins.

 - Longer, more detailed DESCRIPTIONs for creature files. There are only 767 creatures and I'm sure people love to read through repeating text a lot. So... might not be worth the trouble.

 - More vermin. Add more variations of vermin, lets say double them. Then reduce the frequency of the vermin by 50%, and the game balance will be the same. Same amount of vermin on the map, but more varied types.

 - More entries for creature_fanciful. The mythological centaurs, chimeras and griffons that don't actually exist in the game, but are supposed to show up in engravings and pref_strings. I actually never seen them show up. O.o

 - More entries for descriptor_shape. Aka engravings and gem-cuts. There are only 37 in vanilla DF.

 - More colors for descriptor_color_standard and eye color. There are already well over a hundred of them, so I think we are good.

 - More/different SELECT_SYMBOL for entities. Aka less Urist and Bomrek; rather a larger pool of names for dwarven sites, forts, dwarves themselves...

 - More clothing types. Carbon copies of existing clothing items with more descriptive names and adjectives. "Large, puffy vest", "striped shirt", "studded leather jacket", etc. Could also include ethnicity-themed sets, like Mayan, Japanese, Nordic...

 - More names for item_food. Simple one, doesn't change balance and I'm sure dwarves can do better than biscuits, stew and roast.

 - More entries for instruments. There are currently only procedually generated, weirdly named instruments. One could add a few real-world instruments to DF, lets say 3x for each of the 4 types supported in DF: Stringed, Percussion, Keyboard and Wind.

 - Carbon-copies of weapons and/or ammo. A barbed arrow for goblins, a curved sword for elves, a pointy-stick (spear) for kobolds... Same entries and values, just new names.

 - More entries for language, symbols and words. This is complicated, but adds a lot of flavor to peoples names, artefacts, locations... you name it. There are currently 2195 entries, so making any large impact would take... a bit of work. I'm also not sure if there are hardcoded areas that might get confused by new words... I kinda remember titans/FBs with empty names when using mods that add new words, but don't add them to symbols. I think.

 - More grasses for plant_grasses. Grass is only used for grazers and it doesn't matter which type the graze on.

That's it. All I could think of without adding any new elements or altering the game balance itself.

Please let me know what you think, if you have additional ideas, and if there is an interest for a mod like this.

Cheers,
Meph

PS: I'm thinking about a vanilla-mod. More or less. Tileset with graphics for everything; bug-fixes and balancing like in Modest Mod (Button) / Revised (Taffer), some extra flavor; but all still vanilla DF. Like an anti-masterwork mod. :D
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 12:58:34 pm by Meph »
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
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Novaris

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If I had a wish free it would be a few new races. Maybe even giving the game more of a Tolkien spin, having orcs, uruk-hais, a metal using variant of the elves and the weapon and armorsets they use. twin bladed axes and mail cloaks for dwarfes, mithril, metal bows and harder armor for elves, maybe even include the tolkien language or font? and all spiced with your talent for graphics.... all I need then is a ring artifact and a human in adventure mode :-D

But ok enough wih the daydreaming. As much as I would love to have more variance in combat having more sound effects in soundsense would also be great. i was watching Kruggsmash's LPs this week and at one point he started voicing the battles and wondered, if I could cut and paste those into Soundsense so that 'severed part sailed off in an arc' be voiced with 'hah his head popped right open' :-D so when you plan something to enhance soundsense I would love to hear the result.

One thing that would be helpful is telling that damn cave spiders to step producing so many webs in the caverns. Every time I open the caverns the floor is esentially full of webs which not only looks strange as the whole cavern layer is white (a more subtle and transparent tile would be great) but also sems to have an fps impact so makimg this vermin less webby might help.

Enhancing the world with more ore would also be welcome, maybe a ore like mithril, to fill the gap between steel and adamantine? Next step would be to give the ore a syndrome which gives the players strength or so, lasting only a day but once you forge an armor out of it it lasts as long as your dwarfes wear it....or the invading orcs...

....and can I have fries with that? ;-)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 02:33:14 am by Novaris »
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Meph

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All of that changes game-balance though.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

Novaris

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I know but a man can dream.

No seriously, the added armor or weapons have little impact as long as they are not overpowered and essentially 1:1 copies. And more sound effects only change my real life : dwarf life ratio
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IndigoFenix

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I really think that focus on adventure mode is warranted.  Masterwork began when adventure was very bare-bones but it has been expanded on significantly since then and ignoring it would be ignoring a major component of the game.

Edit: Oops, I thought this was for Masterwork.  Well, the statement still stands.

gentgeen

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Quote
- More names for item_food. Simple one, doesn't change balance and I'm sure dwarves can do better than biscuits, stew and roast.

I'll just leave this here and see myself out.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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ZM5

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Quote
- More entries for language, symbols and words. This is complicated, but adds a lot of flavor to peoples names, artefacts, locations... you name it. There are currently 2195 entries, so making any large impact would take... a bit of work. I'm also not sure if there are hardcoded areas that might get confused by new words... I kinda remember titans/FBs with empty names when using mods that add new words, but don't add them to symbols. I think.
I don't think thats a good idea aside from few words that fit into the setting and aren't present for some reason. Having an expanded dictionary, particularly when there's a lot more words added in order to have a "large impact", can really increase the amount of time it takes to generate a world.

TomiTapio

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OldGenesis contains the FINNISH language, by me. And rude words expansion of all languages. And a neat swimming pool by Deon.
My 5 leather tiers and 3 wood tiers affect balance lots, but having some of the trees I've added, with vanilla_wood material, would be just flavor. I've set correct tree heights from wikipedia too. And adjusted animal run speeds, from various sources.

I have many decorative minerals too, pink marble, white marble, black marble, pure marble. Reg/white/gray granite. Rapakivi granite, my IRL city has some Rapakivi granite stairs.
Feel free to lift stuff from OldGenesis.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
heck I better remove "marinade", that's silly type.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 02:51:06 pm by TomiTapio »
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==OldGenesis mod== by Deon & TomiTapio. Five wood classes, four leather classes. Nine enemy civs. So much fine-tuning.
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Gashcozokon

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- Carbon copies of dwarves, elves, humans, goblins and kobolds that use different graphics. For example 5 dwarf_1, dwarf_2, etc. creatures, but one looks like the normal dwarf, another has brighter bears and is taller, another is smaller with black beards, one looks evil, yadda yadda. Aka the design of the main races could be a bit randomized between worlds. Wouldn't change game balance. Visiting races could also get the same treatment, like viking-humans in one world, but arabic humans in another. High-elves, or wood-elves. Hob-goblins or night goblins.
...

PS: I'm thinking about a vanilla-mod. More or less. Tileset with graphics for everything; bug-fixes and balancing like in Modest Mod (Button) / Revised (Taffer), some extra flavor; but all still vanilla DF. Like an anti-masterwork mod. :D

I do not know if it is possible; But what I would love to see is unique ASCII-Tile values in as many places as possible.
[CREATURE_TILE:'g'] occurs 29 times in the raws. The game understands character codes as well as 'A' symbols and there is a ton of space in a .ttf font file. that creating a 'Textual Tileset' Like expanding upon the DF_Mayday_16x16.ttf font. Is it possible to define Class/Profession Tiles as Graphics allows?
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Warlord255

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Color for creatures is a big one - at least for me. Most non-sentient creatures only come in one color, which is disappointing.\

For example, here's the colors I updated for Mantis/Mantis Men;

   [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:CHITIN]
         [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:GREEN:1:MOSS_GREEN:1:DARK_OLIVE:1:EMERALD:1:MINT_GREEN:1:FERN_GREEN:1:YELLOW_GREEN:1:OLIVE:1]
            [TLCM_NOUN:chitin:SINGULAR]
      [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:WING:CHITIN]
         [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:CLEAR:1]
            [TLCM_NOUN:wings:PLURAL]
      [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:EYE:EYE]
         [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:AMBER:1:PEACH:1:BRONZE:1:GOLD:1:BRASS:1:GOLDEN_YELLOW:1:GOLDENROD:1:SAFFRON:1]
            [TLCM_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]

If you meet them as adventurers, there'll certainly be more distinction between individuals.
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gentgeen

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Very true. For example, here're the vanilla raw definitions for a duck's feathers.

[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:FEATHER]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:BROWN:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:feathers:PLURAL]

And here's what I have modded into my personal mod for a duck:

[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:FEATHER][TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:BROWN:10:WHITE:10:BLUE:5:DARK_BROWN:5:AUBURN:3:SLATE_GRAY:3:DARK_GREEN:8:LIGHT_BLUE:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:feathers:PLURAL]
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scamtank

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Ooh, this thread is a great idea. I did some furbishing work on lions a while back that's just been sitting on my hard drive, but now I have just the place to show it off.

First, the description of their color at the end of the lion's raws where this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...is replaced with this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...since I think the whole "the hair is this color and the skin is this color" distinction is completely pointless in most furred creatures, it describes lions as just having "{color} fur".

Most of the work was put in lion people though, since I was miffed that they didn't have any manes to style, or any other humanoid descriptors for that matter. Here's the relevant half of the lion people raws, with the new sections in yellow.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Their manes are supposed to start growing in once they reach adulthood, getting longer and darker the longer they live. Randomly generated lionbois don't seem like they obey the rules, so the mechanism probably won't be seen outside a fortress where your lion people are raising families. C'est la vie, I guess.

There's one extra moving part this system needs, however. I didn't want my civilized lions shaving their heads as a fashion statement, but didn't want to deprive everything else of baldness, so all entities have an extra tissue style for how its members shape their MANE layers. Here's an excerpt from my entity raws, again with new stuff in yellow.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Jazz Cat

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The music and instrument bits are what get me; I've been thinking about doing some stuff with that for a while now. If you added in non-procedural instruments, do you think the dwarves would play them? I haven't seen much mention of instruments in the raws. I'd definitely be down for modding up some real-life instruments for you if they'd integrate into the game, though. Period-accurate ones, even, if I can figure out exactly when and where DF is set. Even different instruments for the different entities.

As for the background music -- I've never actually used SoundSense, is background music one of the things it adds, or is it just sound effects and notifications? I think it could be a lot of fun to make a procedural song tool that generates actual songs (probably hilariously bizarre ones given the nature of the thing) based on the generated song forms in DF -- so if you go to your tavern, you can actually listen to your dwarves performing The Green Hoary Marmot, complete with the dwarf making gatin noises with his mouth because he doesn't have the actual instrument.
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Give your dwarves a pet
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Just give the Crossbow weapon the [AMMO:CROSSBOW] tag in the raws. You can make a crossbow that shoots crossbows.

scamtank

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The music and instrument bits are what get me; I've been thinking about doing some stuff with that for a while now. If you added in non-procedural instruments, do you think the dwarves would play them? I haven't seen much mention of instruments in the raws.

Sure. There's no elements to the system that only the AI gets to use, any of the instruments that get generated could be recreated by hand. Toady included an explicit pile of examples in the raw subfolder. The one thing that's been stopping me from adding normal, sensible fiddles and horns and stuff into the game is because I don't have the music knowledge to do justice to the level of detail possible.

And soundsense at least had background music once upon a time, yeah. Season-sensitive, too.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 03:41:36 pm by scamtank »
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Jazz Cat

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Woah, that's neat. This is definitely worth working up a mod for.

Follow-up question: Do the defining tags actually have any effect on gameplay? My guess would be that they'd contribute to procedurally-generated description (i.e, a tag like [SOUND_PRODUCTION:STRUCK_BY_BP:RESONATOR] would create a line in the description like "the musician strikes the resonator"), but then there's also a tag for writing your own description so I don't know.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 04:47:19 pm by Jazz Cat »
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Give your dwarves a pet
My holiday mod (only offensive to elves)
The check-laundry script

Quote
Just give the Crossbow weapon the [AMMO:CROSSBOW] tag in the raws. You can make a crossbow that shoots crossbows.
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