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Author Topic: In future, improved, sieges once that eventual release comes, what can be done?  (Read 7662 times)

KittyTac

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Imagination.

But how can we discuss the strategies without knowing the numbers?

Speculation.
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GoblinCookie

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Speculation.

We propose speculative strategies based upon speculative numbers for speculative features.  ;)
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KittyTac

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Speculation.

We propose speculative strategies based upon speculative numbers for speculative features.  ;)

What's wrong with that?
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Bortness

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Speculation.

We propose speculative strategies based upon speculative numbers for speculative features.  ;)

It's called "having some fun."

https://www.wikihow.com/Have-Fun

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GoblinCookie

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It's not a question of it not being fun fun, it is a question of how?
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Shonai_Dweller

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It's not a question of it not being fun fun, it is a question of how?
Imagination.

Goblins will be able to tunnel. Imagine what that might be like. How might dorfs counter? How might tunneling be enhanced as a feature to make dorfs counter tactics more Fun.

Eventually through brainstorming possibilities we come up with a vague idea of how tunneling and countering of tunneling might work to bring fun to the game. At which point someone posts a Suggestion.

No point in expecting Toady to sit through 30 pages of vague crap preceded by posts explaining what out of the box thinking and brainstorming are.

And if nothing comes of it, it's still fun for fun's sake.
Unless you insist on being the grouch in the corner muttering 'damn waste of time. Get off my lawn...'.
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GoblinCookie

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Imagination.

Goblins will be able to tunnel. Imagine what that might be like. How might dorfs counter? How might tunneling be enhanced as a feature to make dorfs counter tactics more Fun.

Eventually through brainstorming possibilities we come up with a vague idea of how tunneling and countering of tunneling might work to bring fun to the game. At which point someone posts a Suggestion.

No point in expecting Toady to sit through 30 pages of vague crap preceded by posts explaining what out of the box thinking and brainstorming are.

And if nothing comes of it, it's still fun for fun's sake.
Unless you insist on being the grouch in the corner muttering 'damn waste of time. Get off my lawn...'.

The problem I see is how well can they tunnel?  First I have to speculate about how the mechanic in general will work, then I have to also speculate about the 'numbers', as in how well they can tunnel VS my counter-response.  It is not speculating, it is stacking speculation on speculation on speculation. 
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Bumber

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Personally, I would prefer it if tunneling didn't affect the terrain. Tunnels being a structure like roots would avoid having to fill in holes.
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Bortness

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The problem I see is how well can they tunnel?  First I have to speculate about how the mechanic in general will work, then I have to also speculate about the 'numbers', as in how well they can tunnel VS my counter-response.  It is not speculating, it is stacking speculation on speculation on speculation.

We all understand you see a problem with this and pretty much everything else as well.  Next ask us how much we care.
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GoblinCookie

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We all understand you see a problem with this and pretty much everything else as well.  Next ask us how much we care.

I don't see a problem with anything.  The question is how do you speculate about a solution to a problem that you know not what it is when you do not know the numerical values of the problem you don't know about.  ??? ??? 8) 8)

Or to put it another way, we don't know how tunnels work, we also don't know how fast they would work compared to how fast our responses to this would work.
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Shonai_Dweller

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We all understand you see a problem with this and pretty much everything else as well.  Next ask us how much we care.

I don't see a problem with anything.  The question is how do you speculate about a solution to a problem that you know not what it is when you do not know the numerical values of the problem you don't know about.  ??? ??? 8) 8)

Or to put it another way, we don't know how tunnels work, we also don't know how fast they would work compared to how fast our responses to this would work.
Nobody knows how tunnels work. Because there are no tunneling invaders. So there are no numbers. We're at the ideas stage with a vague brief of 'tunneling invaders night be fun'. Some people find coming up with ideas for games fun. You don't, great, we get that, by why purposefully derail a thread?

Hanging out here repeating yourself over and over again until the thread dies only causes people to assume your long walls of text on economics are just efforts to kill those threads too rather than anything actually worth reading. Heck, maybe that's true....
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Bortness

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We all understand you see a problem with this and pretty much everything else as well.  Next ask us how much we care.

I don't see a problem with anything.

Literally your previous post:

Quote from: GoblinCookie
The problem I see is how well can they tunnel?

Yeah screw off with your nonsensical ramblings that contradict your own previous nonsensical ramblings.
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bloop_bleep

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It is pretty easy to speculate how digging invaders will work given there's already a plugin by the very same name that implements it. If tunneling invaders will work like in that plugin, where invaders will dig as little as they need to and not at all if possible, then you simply have to make sure that a (preferably trap-filled) path remains to your fortress at all times in order to protect against it.
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Shonai_Dweller

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It is pretty easy to speculate how digging invaders will work given there's already a plugin by the very same name that implements it. If tunneling invaders will work like in that plugin, where invaders will dig as little as they need to and not at all if possible, then you simply have to make sure that a (preferably trap-filled) path remains to your fortress at all times in order to protect against it.
When underground civs are working properly, they'll be tunneling from below too. Invisibly at first. So you'll need to be racing to open up the caverns to reveal how much damage invaders have already done, before patching it all back up again with traps and such.

Any way to warn the player that an underground menace might be on their way? Maybe just reveal the civs existence on the embark map. Or not...:)

This might be more Fun when we eventually get to play human towns where the first indication that something's wrong is when a wall in the sewers comes down and evil stuff starts crawling through Eye of the Beholder style. Time to rustle up some monster slayers (or build a new wall, whatever).
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GoblinCookie

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Nobody knows how tunnels work. Because there are no tunneling invaders. So there are no numbers. We're at the ideas stage with a vague brief of 'tunneling invaders night be fun'. Some people find coming up with ideas for games fun. You don't, great, we get that, by why purposefully derail a thread?

Hanging out here repeating yourself over and over again until the thread dies only causes people to assume your long walls of text on economics are just efforts to kill those threads too rather than anything actually worth reading. Heck, maybe that's true....

Coming up with ideas for the game is the suggestions forum, I was led to believe that general discussion was where this thread belonged because it was 'speculation' about a future feature to be implemented.  So there is no ideas stage as such, since this is not about making suggestions as to how tunneling invaders would work but instead speculating about how we would in the future situation be able to counter a situation the mechanics of which we no nothing. 

If I repeat myself it is because I got no response that addressed anything that I was saying and as for 'what people think', when did I ever care about that?  I see no value in pandering to a 'cosy consensus' brought about by bloodthirsty crypto-fascists taking advantage of the general desire of ordinery people to avoid confrontation and this is pretty much how I recall the forum was when I arrived. Or to put it another way, the velvet glove concealing an iron fist. 

It is pretty easy to speculate how digging invaders will work given there's already a plugin by the very same name that implements it. If tunneling invaders will work like in that plugin, where invaders will dig as little as they need to and not at all if possible, then you simply have to make sure that a (preferably trap-filled) path remains to your fortress at all times in order to protect against it.

The problem is that that if what was planned was that simple it would already be in the game.  If invader digging is supposed to work like present digging works, then the absence of it for invaders does not make much sense.  However, perhaps the reason for the absence is that it requires quite advanced AI to avoid basic pitfalls like you are describing? The AI must be coded according to the present numbers and mechanics, but what if the present numbers and mechanics *are* a placeholder.

Recall that the whole situation is going to upended when we implement multi-tile creatures. 
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