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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 859410 times)

Real_bang

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1290 on: December 10, 2018, 05:19:27 pm »

With religion being updated should we expect inquisitions in the next release? Also would we see religion mixing so some humans would believe in dwarven gods or other things like that (if its not in the game already)?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1291 on: December 10, 2018, 05:28:03 pm »

With religion being updated should we expect inquisitions in the next release? Also would we see religion mixing so some humans would believe in dwarven gods or other things like that (if its not in the game already)?
The latest dev log had an example of a site with both dwarven and human gods, and with both races having members worshiping the "other" god. Apart from that, gods are tied more closely to civs than to races, so dwarves in a human civ are likely to have human gods in addition to the human civ ethics.
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Death Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1292 on: December 11, 2018, 03:03:28 am »

With religion being updated should we expect inquisitions in the next release? ...
I have to assume inquisitions would have to wait until the law/status update which, if I remember right, is planned after the magic update.
I think at most we can hope for people profaning temples and shrines of religions that they don't like. Not sure if people can dislike (and sabotage) other religions because they see them as "rivals" to their own religion in the currently developed update, but it could be using the same framework that companies use when they sabotage rival companies, so maybe. Can you maybe confirm, Toad?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1293 on: December 11, 2018, 03:39:06 am »

Yeah, unless inquisitions are somehow needed to add extra links for villains to make their networks (which isn't inconceivable, I guess with them roaming around looking for ducks to burn) there's no real need for all the extra mechanics that would need, even if it's only going on in worldgen.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1294 on: December 11, 2018, 03:54:00 am »

With religion being updated should we expect inquisitions in the next release? ...
I have to assume inquisitions would have to wait until the law/status update which, if I remember right, is planned after the magic update.
I think at most we can hope for people profaning temples and shrines of religions that they don't like. Not sure if people can dislike (and sabotage) other religions because they see them as "rivals" to their own religion in the currently developed update, but it could be using the same framework that companies use when they sabotage rival companies, so maybe. Can you maybe confirm, Toad?

Abstractly that question is too wide ended in the way you presented it to answer quickly, but civilizations of opposite core spheres already pick that as a casus belli since followers of fire spheres will go to war with followers of water spheres but this is hardly represented in the game without actually modifying everything to fall into place.

I asked something similar earlier in the thread in regards to how civilizations cope or 'not cope' with having rival sphere religions settling across the road in the same city, nervously eyeballing each other or if someone in charge takes action. Inquisitions i have too little information availible to think about other than vampire purges at this current time.

Will religion have any standing to the static or variable hereditary noble positions for a requirement to holding a post/consideration of nomination?*

*- Though the latter is a slightly more fluid majority thing it would seem from our current level of information in towns, pantheons are not so clear cut as saying 'your ruler needs [RELIGION:CHRISTIANITY]' to be egible to rule as much as sponsoring a particular god higher than others.

Yeah, unless inquisitions are somehow needed to add extra links for villains to make their networks (which isn't inconceivable, I guess with them roaming around looking for ducks to burn) there's no real need for all the extra mechanics that would need, even if it's only going on in worldgen.

Well as long as its politically/religiously just and not just the Frollo esque machinations of someone seeking revenge or a twisted sense of divine duty. Like said in the above paragraphs, there's definitely vampire purges in worldgen as a precedent for problems when things get out of control on a local level causing mass unrest and social problems.
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Real_bang

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1295 on: December 11, 2018, 07:53:15 am »

If multi-tiled creatures are a thing to come someday, will we see multi-tile cage traps/other means of capturing them
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1296 on: December 11, 2018, 09:31:49 am »

If multi-tiled creatures are a thing to come someday, will we see multi-tile cage traps/other means of capturing them

Toady's address this as being a facet of the moving fortress parts arc, where the actual mutli creature's would likely lie but also mechanically lots of other things would be explored in greater detail as to their states and movements. Here's what was said in the development goals

Though a lot more on the matter exists in audio and transcribed DF talks.

Quote from: from development log
Adventurer Role: Treasure Hunter
  • Traps - Whatever comes out of mechanics (below) should occur in the sites you explore to the extent that the traps can be detected and surpassed
//
Improved Mechanics
   
  • Better traps
- Stone traps should require the stone be placed above the tile that is targeted
        - Stones should be able to roll (perhaps if they are started from or land on a ramp tile)
        - Weapon traps should be multi-tile and require a spring or other potential energy source -- automatic resetting should require some explicit establishment of a feasible mechanism
  • Large pipe sections -- walk on them or crawl inside them, allow passage for fluids
  • Moving fortress sections (lifts, crushing traps, etc.)
  • Waterproof axles through some mechanism
  • Rock grinders? Fans? We'll do some other machines around this time -- whichever feasible ones are the most entertaining for dwarves and treasure hunters
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Real_bang

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1297 on: December 11, 2018, 10:52:40 am »

If multi-tiled creatures are a thing to come someday, will we see multi-tile cage traps/other means of capturing them

Toady's address this as being a facet of the moving fortress parts arc, where the actual mutli creature's would likely lie but also mechanically lots of other things would be explored in greater detail as to their states and movements. Here's what was said in the development goals

Though a lot more on the matter exists in audio and transcribed DF talks.

Quote from: from development log
Adventurer Role: Treasure Hunter
  • Traps - Whatever comes out of mechanics (below) should occur in the sites you explore to the extent that the traps can be detected and surpassed
//
Improved Mechanics
   
  • Better traps
- Stone traps should require the stone be placed above the tile that is targeted
        - Stones should be able to roll (perhaps if they are started from or land on a ramp tile)
        - Weapon traps should be multi-tile and require a spring or other potential energy source -- automatic resetting should require some explicit establishment of a feasible mechanism
  • Large pipe sections -- walk on them or crawl inside them, allow passage for fluids
  • Moving fortress sections (lifts, crushing traps, etc.)
  • Waterproof axles through some mechanism
  • Rock grinders? Fans? We'll do some other machines around this time -- whichever feasible ones are the most entertaining for dwarves and treasure hunters
Oh i see. Cant wait to see this in action (in a couple of years ofc he he).
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therahedwig

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1298 on: December 13, 2018, 05:33:44 pm »

When I went to take a look at the Elven civ in my world, I noticed that Elves take a lot of walks, like, I've seen humans out of a stroll, but elves go out for a stroll en masse, sometimes in big groups and sometimes I would see multiple big groups at once come by.

Is taking walks an official Elven pastime or something? Or is it just a quirk of forest retreats having the residences in the air?
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1299 on: December 14, 2018, 04:31:36 am »

Question: With the new devlog, will there be any overlap with how holy cities/prophet mechanics can be inferred into fortress play due to how many temples are set up around the place?*

* Seems like a nice pull for a temple tourist trap, orchestrating your fortress as the spawning ground for a home-made prophet.

It seems that [POSITION:RELIGION] may be tenable for the future in playable civilisations without incurring a crash if not actually carrying gameplay i hope with the new changes too, despite the weird barely used place its in right now.

Though just to add as feedback for the devlog in general your issue around sphere competition could be alleivated by evil sphere alignment modifier's with a little bit of religious code  but this is not particularly a suggestion as much as just anecdotal to myself running w.g dark fortress goblins with negative sphere pantheons without much trouble which even if demons/dark fort leaders get some form of special religion to play Pyongyang cult of personality for the future or better tying by becoming a assigned forceful self-prophet, should be resistant enough to the outside world's good spheres.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 04:58:27 am by FantasticDorf »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1300 on: December 14, 2018, 04:42:59 am »

Will it be possible for us to "defend" goblin civs from religion a little by modding in a position holder with Religion as a workaround? Or is it not that simple?
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1301 on: December 14, 2018, 05:02:18 am »

Will it be possible for us to "defend" goblin civs from religion a little by modding in a position holder with Religion as a workaround? Or is it not that simple?

The 'monarch' // master could have tags to this effect, but im sure if there's no new tags handling all of it that modders can probably jerry-rig a nice compromise. In my attached suggestion hyperlink in my post above, i just touched upon the point that if fortress grown prophets were going to be running around converting people on your orders with C screen missions, you'll probably want to push war & fortresses into goblins for their pallette of beliefs for the knock on effect of giving goblin outcasts and prisoners more incentive to join your side with religious acceptance.

That is if another w.g religion hasn't got there first.
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Inarius

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1302 on: December 14, 2018, 08:32:49 am »

Will religion deeply affect politics/psychology ? I think of religious wars or fights or good/bad relationships based on religious differences
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1303 on: December 14, 2018, 08:48:45 am »

Will religion deeply affect politics/psychology ? I think of religious wars or fights or good/bad relationships based on religious differences
Religious differences are already a cause of conflict.
Well, in as much as civs can use their neighbour's "godlessness" as a reason to go to war.
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Whatsifsowhatsit

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1304 on: December 14, 2018, 09:27:50 am »

I'm not sure if this verges on the suggestion-ey, but I think it's a general enough idea that it must be something you've thought about before, and I'm just curious in which ways you have considered it, and how it influences current development.

A while back now, Ultimate Ratio Regum developer Mark R. Johnson was spending a large amount of time programming in AI behaviors involving time tables for work, having farmers man the fields, guards stand guard and replace each other at the appropriate time, etc., and to have that all work out regardless of whether the player is present, absent, or appears or disappears midway through such a scene. Currently, the NPCs in Dwarf Fortress in adventure mode tend to stand around inside their homes for the most part and do nothing.

Have you considered programming in the daily lives of NPCs (in adventure mode/outside of the fortress) in terms of going to work, eating, going to sleep, etc., and if so, how do you envision this for the future? Do you think it would be difficult/straightforward/possible to make it flexible enough that every day is not necessarily the same as the last, i.e. so that it doesn't interrupt more specific behaviors that don't fall under the purview of the everyday routine (that I think are currently much more developed already)? Also, on which other features (such as the economy or other social/cultural frameworks) does it rely, as far as you can see?

I imagine the absence (mostly) of this sort of AI currently influences how you might add some things, like in yesterday's devlog about (among other things) priests converting part of a community; I imagine that currently happens in a rather abstract manner, but once AI is more fleshed out, if it ever is, I imagine you might want to make this sort of thing more visible/make it so that it 'actually happens', so to speak. (I realize it's currently just WG stuff being described in there, so it would have to be abstract anyway, but I'm talking about when this shows up in other parts of the game.) Do you think this sort of thing is something best done relatively late (risking having to rewrite many other things that were at first abstracted) or early (risking you might not have all the prerequisite systems in place for it)? (Note that I'm not asking for a specific timetable or some such, obviously I know that's impossible to give at this point.)
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 10:08:57 am by Whatsifsowhatsit »
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